Topic: A Setting Proposal

[rdanhenry]

The only way I could see setting creation by committee actually providing an advantage is if it tapped into real expertise. If you had your landforms created by a professional geologist, the climate zones built over those by a professional climatologist, and so on and so forth, then I'd be interested, as it likely would provide a more "realistic" world than I can come up with on my own or download from the many freely-available setting already on the internet.

[Chris Seal]

Okay, let's start a real fight.

"Elves"  What is an elf exactly?  We've already ruled out definition by origin.

Obviously the Rolemaster elves need to exist but not necessarily in the same cultural context.

From that root we have a race that is immortal (or close enough anyhow), fair and beautiful, craft wise, and innately magical.  But do we need to assume high elves are the most ancient and favored of the gods?  Are wood elves tree hugging hippies or elven barbarians?  Mine are generally celtic and human sacrificing.  "That's why the gods made humans so short lived and fast breeding.  The gods like to be fed regularly."  Okay, I've never had anyone like a single one of my elf NPCs in thirty years of gaming.

Now, I'm not talking about the sloppy shuffle like "High Elves are Samurai."  But I'm thinking it would serve ICE's needs well if we dodged around a certain well known fantasy propery's tropes.

Well, elves and humans can interbreed as can orcs and humans. Given the lack of half-dwarves and quarterlings (half-halflings), this would suggest, to my untrained amateur eye in any case, that elves, humans and orcs have only recently diverged from each other on the humanoid family tree. Dwarves, halflings and trolls must have branched off much earlier.

Seriously though, why do humans get all the cultural variations whereas the other races don't? I have celtic elves, much like you have discussed, though sans the human sacrificing (more warring though) and I have desert elves, darker skinned and master horsemen, who lead human traders through the Great Desert to the Caliphates of Suravar, for a small fee. Likewise the Umli are a race of arctic dwelling dwarves who specialise in working whale bone, whereas their more traditional cousins live in cities carved into the face of the mountains.

[David Johansen]

You know, that might be a good hook between the two of you.

Suppose for a moment that we're looking at an evolutionary world.  Magical yes, but none the less a world where divergent evolution is culpable for things more often than gods and wizards.

I know I was all for muddying the origins to make things less set in stone, but the idea catches my fancy.

Suppose Gods are a hyper evolved homind strain that has literally migrated to a higher plane.  Elves, humans, and orcs are also divergent strains.  Dwarves, goblins, and trolls are more like cryptids, last leavings of otherwise dead lines.  Now suppose the absence of magic is the evolutionary disadvantage.

One might go as far to see magic as an evolutionary accelerator.  The gods soaked up a huge chunk of juju early on and were literally absorbed into the magical field.  I think lineages of gods would be interesting.  What happens to the religion of a god who dies of old age?  Do his kids have a sucession crisis?

That doesn't mean people don't have all their own wild theories on where stuff comes from.  Evolution doesn't leave its notes behind.

[Old Man]

"Elves"  What is an elf exactly?  We've already ruled out definition by origin.

Perhaps we/ICE/them might want to consider a menu-style development. Present the races available, let the GM decide on the mix for his/her world?

[Marc R]

Well, if this is developing one world, each developing 7 hexes of a mega hex of the worldmap, then it's all one world, isn't it?

[Chris Seal]

Warning vanity post not really relevant to the topic

Heh, my homebrew campaign take on things is that half-orcs are a aberration within the orcish genome itself. Every one in a thousand orcs is born less brutish and more intelligent. This is considered a curse and the offspring is half as good as an orc, hence a half-orc.

Based on that idea, my homonid family splits into a gracile and robust form somewhere around homo habilus (Spelling sorry) or homo erectus. The robust form further develops to give orcs, gobilns, trolls and giants whereas the gracile form leads to humans and elves. Halflings come about from human stock as a form of pygmyism and dwarves are a completely different genus which arrived from offworld eons ago.

[Marc R]

There's no reason why Tile 345 couldn't have a crazy warlock or alchemist in it's past named Moreau who created a horde of variant races/creatures. . . or any other "local creation myth".

Similarly no reason why Tile 241 couldn't have purple skinned, horned, bat winged demon looking people who happen to be refugees from a dimensional rift 400 years ago.

Unless the central Bible says "No inter dimensional rifts, No warlock created races, no alchemists creating new races."

Which in the end, is why multi author story projects that resemble this usually start off with a core bible of immutable laws that-are-not-broken. . .

[David Johansen]

Yes, the idea is to develop parts of a single world as a whole.  At least some of my inspiration would be the classic Hyborea ancients campaign in the early days of modern miniatures gaming.

Generally a more realistic world with a more realistic tone is what I'm suggesting.  Because I think it fits Rolemaster's place in the industry.  Not anally medievalist like Chivalry and Sorcery, but, still trying for some authenticity and avoiding just solving everything with magic.

[GrumpyOldFart]

One thing I'm pretty sure of is that the setting needs to support the existing rules framework.  From the most basic stand point we are talking about setting and adventure modules for a roleplaying game.  While we may be looking for a more mythical, nuanced feel, it's important to keep the end in mind and create something people can actually play.

Precisely.  Just wanted to make sure everyone understood something like this isn't like getting together to play the weekend game.  If it's an 'official' setting there will be a baseline freelancers would be given to work from.

Okay, let's start a real fight.

"Elves"  What is an elf exactly?  We've already ruled out definition by origin.

This is why I posted that link earlier.

http://www.realroleplaying.com/rmsmf/index.php?board=327.0

It wasn't in hopes of having anyone adopt it. It's to give you a guide to a lot of "oops, I just realized we'll need to decide this too" type things. And keep in mind, by using Earth as a basis, I saved myself immense amounts of "oops, I just realized we'll need to decide this too" type things. You know, all that stuff done by the real geologists and climatologists, it's Earth, I didn't have to make any of it up or decide any of it, I just had to find it and write it down.

And even with that, and having the D&D/Tolkein/RM "standard fantasy" to work off of, there's still lots of little details. And that's "lots of little details" while still at the "broad brush" stage, too. Things like how magic works, and why. Where dragons come from. That kinda stuff.

One of the things I thought I couldn't avoid was the creation of a new Academic/Scientific skill, Thaumatology. I just can't see the idea that humans exist on a world where magic works, and yet there are no scientists trying to discover the nuts and bolts of why it works. Humans, at least, are too curious to let it lie.

Which in the end, is why multi author story projects that resemble this usually start off with a core bible of immutable laws that-are-not-broken. . .

...which is what I meant by "some sort of Kyoto Accord"...

[David Johansen]

Well, there is a small but consistent interest in an ancient earth / bronze age I've noted on rpg.net over the years.

That would be one way to go, though I some how suspect that since Rolemaster doesn't use Jenga blocks, spinners, and pig entrails to resolve actions it would probably be rejected in that quarter.

[Chris Seal]

That would be one way to go, though I some how suspect that since Rolemaster doesn't use Jenga blocks, spinners, and pig entrails to resolve actions it would probably be rejected in that quarter.

Dang I've been doing it wrong all these years. No pig entrails. Sheesh

[David Johansen]

Well, I'm pretty sure there's a specific rpg designed for every remaining gamer at this point.  I'm also pretty sure that the more fractured the alternatives become the stronger D&D becomes as the only core choice.

I think that's something we all need to keep in mind.  I suspect any one of us could easily churn out a thosand pages of our own system and schill it on rpgnow.  Honestly with Rolemaster's reputation for complexity it might make more money.  What ICE has to offer is a name with some history and recognition and existing fans.

This is why I think a generic setting is the way to go.  Yes, ICE could bring out ICE's new and improved rpg about playing Jewish slaves in ancient Babylon using clay tablets and cuniform marked dice for resolution.  But once it finds that one guy who wants it.  What then?

How then does one sell a setting in the modern market place?  Offer something better with a good hook.  The opportunity to write a section of the world seems like a pretty good hook in a world where most gamers can manage to build 20 pages or so of good material.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Another thing to keep in mind is that if the parts of the setting are isolated enough from one another, you can have more settings on a single map by dividing them on the overall story timeline as well as geographically. The block of hexes (or the span from the Misty Mountains to the Emerald Plains, and from the Sea of Ice to the Sea of Storms, or whatever) that was once the Great Kingdom of _____ looks much different after the ice age, or the asteroid strike, or whatever. So okay, you the GM can have _____ grant of land for _____ years. After that, what it is and who gets it depends on the effects of _____.

[yammahoper]

HOw about this universe has mankind as its base race.  Now when all NPC's behave in human fashion, at least we understand the how and why of that (lets face it, no one plays aliens, they play humans with pointy ears).

During character creation, players will design their PC within a framework that defines elven, dwarven, hobbitish, trollish, et al characteristics as the awakening of their inner magic psycy.

So the world is full of the traditional races, who are literally demi humans.  A human breeding with a human or demihuman always produces a human, who may or may not (probably will) eventually awaken the same demi human traits (or none for humans that dont awake, etc).

All I'm saying is have some freaking GOOD reason to have elves and dwarves and whatnot.  Should not be that difficult.

[markc]

 What happens if someone takes a tile and does not turn anything in? What happens if they turn in substandard work? What happens if they turn in 1/2 and someone does the other 1/2?
 The above are some of the problems I have seen in the past.


 Low Era settings get some of the old crowd but tend not to get the young crowd who tend to buy more stuff. Magic tends to excite players more than GM's but GM's also tend to rely on it.


 Also anything on the open boards can be used by anyone from any company. If this is serious I would think people would like to move it to a secure location and limit who can and cannot see the posts.


MDC
 


P.S. a 1/2 ling and a 1/2 ling always produce a 1/4 ling as 1/2x1/2=1/4.

[David Johansen]

Well, magically enhanced evolutionary divergence is similar to awakening or what not.

I was thinking that an "everybody is still peoples" approach would be good.  Yes, even the orcs have reasons for the things they do.  I wouldn't go all the way down the poor, poor, orcs line of thinking though.  I think they should be vermin, but not totally irrationally nastyevilbad killing machines.  Fast breeding, fast growing, hungry, territorial, ignorant, and agressive sure but not outright screw everyone all the time evil.

One good thing about smaller land grants is that undeveloped hexes simply remain undeveloped hexes.  People who get an area done can do another, possibly developing the seven border mega hexes around their first one.

Substandard work is an issue.  I never said this idea didn't require a great deal of oversight.  Still, I'm thinking it depends on the available talents.  Possibly some kind of an artistic exchange or mentorship could be arranged.

On the other hand people are not paying for the priviledge of writing an area and ICE wouldn't have any obligation to publish stuff and the writer could probably repurpose it if its rejected outright.

[David Johansen]

P.S. a 1/2 ling and a 1/2 ling always produce a 1/4 ling as 1/2x1/2=1/4.

You can buy them for two bits at the slave market.

[GrumpyOldFart]

All I'm saying is have some freaking GOOD reason to have elves and dwarves and whatnot.  Should not be that difficult.

That's what I tried to do. Dwarves were humans that were genetically engineered for asteroid mining. Elves were humans that were genetically engineered to be interstellar explorers and terraformers.

Then there was a war with "apocalyptic" results.

Cover and simmer for 8000 years or until tender. You can still see the tendencies and aptitudes built into the original stock, but they've diverged more or less from their origins.

Yes, even the orcs have reasons for the things they do.  I wouldn't go all the way down the poor, poor, orcs line of thinking though.

Mine are the "proud, proud" orcs. The closest I could describe their culture is as a cross between Vikings, Mongols and Comanches. Raiding and fighting is what they do. To act as if you fear death is to shame yourself.

[GrumpyOldFart]

They're the ones who taunt the barbarian for being such a wuss. And they mean it, too.

 

[David Johansen]

heh

Bear in mind though that I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks.  I've got no authority here whatever.  If ICE didn't listen to a word I say it would hardly be the first time.

One advantage I see to a somewhat bland general setting is it puts the focus on the author's characters and locations instead of hiding behind "awesome" visuals of improbable and absurd feats and outfits.

"Grounded" I think that may be the key word.  Because let's face it, the young kids aren't Rolemaster's target market.  The average role playing gamer is now in his forties.