Topic: Chaotic base list - Hand of Chaos - Hammerhands

[Hubbaman]

Hello! This spell says: "The caster's hands become as hard as stone. Any attacks are made with Martial Arts OB (using the most appropriate skill), but is solved on the Mace Attack Table."

What would the appropriate skill be? I was thinking Strikes, but should the degree of the strike matter in this case?

[Marc R]

Strikes indeed, I don't believe so, since you'd be resolving on the mace table.

[markc]

Yes martial arts-striking is the skill IMHO.
MDC

[Marc R]

re-reading, my reply is poor grammar.

Strikes indeed, I don't really see how any other MA skill would apply to punching, and don't think tier/degree would matter, since the attack is being rolled on the mace table.

[Hubbaman]

Sounds good. So it should be sufficent to just jack up degree 1 and still get the full use of the mace attack.
It was the answer I was hoping for 

[Marc R]

The background option hammerhands did the same thing, and was typically used that way.

[Hubbaman]

The background option hammerhands did the same thing, and was typically used that way.

Hmm, I thought that talent only changed the type of critical you give, not the attack table you use.

[rdanhenry]

I think the other option would be Boxing.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

What would the appropriate skill be? I was thinking Strikes, but should the degree of the strike matter in this case?

Strikes, or Boxing, or a similar type of skill would work.

And yes, the degree would matter. Although you would be using a different table, it is the skill that puts the limitation on how high up the table you can go. The Martial Arts tables already have these limitations marked on them, but they can easily be applied to any table.

So, if you only know Rank I Martial Arts Strikes, you can only do a maximum of a 105 on the Mace attack table.

The spell changes what attack table and critical is used. It does not allow you to exceed the limitations of the skill being use.

[Marc R]

With strikes, using normal hands, you need to hit vulnerable points in order to do damage, and will not really do much through rigid armor. . .maces (or their equivalents) cause damage through plate mail, and crush bones. . .I would advise against punching someone on the point of their skull for instance, but that would be a good spot to land your mace (or mace-hands). So at my table I wouldn't try to shoe horn the strike tiers into the mace table. YMMV.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

So at my table I wouldn't try to shoe horn the strike tiers into the mace table. YMMV.

It's not attempting to shoe horn anything. It is following the limitations set down by the skill itself. Otherwise, you would be making Hammer Hands much much more powerful than it is supposed to be. The spell/talent makes the hands tougher, and thus allows them to attack on a different set of tables, but they are still hands, and the skill used still has to follow the limitations and requirements that it normally has to follow.

If you want to change the rules in your own game to ignore how they are supposed to work, that is your choice. And the choice of any GM who also wishes to do that.

But for those who wish to follow the rules correctly, the breakpoints for the various ranks/tiers of martial arts attacks need to be followed because that is based on the skill used.

[Marc R]

I did say "At my table" and "YMMV"

They attack as maces, I wouldn't object to the user punching locks off a gate, crushing a rock with it, or systematically smashing a door apart either. . .as if their hands were maces.

Which makes the attacks, IMO, not "merely hands". It's magic after all.

The only PC I've ever allowed to have it as a natural talent, had prosthetic hands from the lay healer list, to explain how that made any sense as a natural course of things, though I guess you could use it as something like "I bathed my hands in the mystic fire" ala "Iron Fist" from the Marvel Comic.

As I said though, merely my opinions, YMMV.

[Hubbaman]

Well, I think the talent Hammerhands and the spell is to different to handle ass the same. The talent states that you can choose to make an impact critical instead of one severity less than the martial arts critical. So for the talent it is obvios that the degree should count.

The spell hammerhands is only on the chaotic base list and since the development cost for martial arts is 5 for chaotics, it seems to me that it would be to expencive and slow to get a good skill on degree 4.

It's not like it's a lot of benefits with playing a chaotic as it is, so I was hoping this could be the base for a fun chaotic martial artist.

[Marc R]

(The original talent for hammerhands, or the RM2 BGO of the same name, is the origin of the spell text, with fist attacks rolling on the mace table)

[Hubbaman]

Hmm, I'm glad they changed it for RMFRP then. It sounds why to powerful for a monk.