Topic: Cost of employing a magic user?

[thrud]

Of course this may vary with the setting.
How much would it typically cost to have a magic user cast a specific spell?
The most common usage I suspect would be to hire a healer to cast a healing spell.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

In the RM2 product, Spell Users Companion, there is an Appendix of frequently asked questions, and one of the questions listed refers to hiring a NPC to cast a spell (the Q&A talks about Lifegiving).

The answer, specifies that different settings will have differences in prices or formula, but that a general rule of thumb would be as follows:

10 + ((level of caster) x (level of spell cast)) gold pieces

Thus, a fifth level caster, casting a fifth level spell would charge 10 + (5 x 5) = 35 gp for a spell, while a 10th level caster would charge 10 + (10 x 5) = 60 gp for the same spell.

Starting with that as your base, you could then adjust it for the availability of magic in a given area (i.e. a town with lots of magic casters and big magic school might charge silver pieces instead of gold, while a magic poor city might double or triple all charges.

[thrud]

Thanks, that gives me an idea where to start at least.

[pastaav]

Actually I think that is the wrong angle to start from...it would mean that different spell casting professions get a very different income.

A more reasonabe approach is to think about how workers it would take to get the work done. If the caster is the more expensive alternative he will very seldom be chosen. Also if the spell caster is employed often to cast spells he will probably charge less for each casting. 

Of course many aspects play into the price...will the spell caster be exposed of danger? Must the spell caster skip his current activity or is it acceptable that the caster schedule the spell casting in the upcoming week?

I always price spell casting services by deciding how much monthly income the caster wants (this is based on the level of the caster), then I divide this by how often the spell caster is hired to cast a spell. Finally the price is adjusted some if it is a high level or low level spell for the caster.

I have found that this model work reasonably well and it gives a price that is more easy to fit to circumstances than a formula that is based only on caster level and spell level. If the story need a spell solution then they find a spell user that does not charge much, if such is not wanted all spell users they find are already scheduled to much to take new customers.

[thrud]

Oh, I just remembered...
Is there anywhere you can read about availability of magicusers, craftsmen and other professionals?
It's not like you're going to stumble across a lv47 Archmage or a lv33 weaponsmith in every other village you pass through.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

IIRC, the closest thing would be the tables in the back of RoCo I (section 8.0, around page 76 of the original RoCo I), the City System I think is what it was called.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I had used basically the system that Rasyr described for costs, but had based it on SP rather than GP. I figure if a peasant can support himself on 15 SP or so a year as per pg. 6 of Treasure Companion, for a 5th lvl spellcaster to make a good year's wages for casting one spell one time is plenty outrageous enough. Granted, the spellcaster no doubt moves in a different social stratum than the peasant and has different expenses. Still, 35 gold for one 5th level spell? $350?!? Half the price of a greater warhorse? I don't see it.
That being said, as a GM I can understand jacking the price up because you don't want your players to always feel like they have every spell they could ever want on tap for a few bucks. But if you do that, and you still want your social setting to be internally logical, you need to create a set of social conditions that would cause such a thing to come to pass. A 5th level caster is not gonna charge 10 years' wages for a single casting of a single spell and keep getting more customers, not if those customers have any other options.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I like the idea of silver pieces myself.

I would also use that 10 coin base, and use that for the various variables. How rare are casters, how dangerous is the casting, Lifegiving would certainly bump it up a bit, etc...

In fact, I would likely keep Lifegiving in the gold piece range, otherwise resurrection might become too common.

[markc]

 IIRC, there is either a chart in the RM2 War Law or RMSS Castles and Ruins. Later tonight I will chek my books and see if it is where I thought it was.

 Also in the past I have used various D&D tables with gp becoming sp or bp as the local economy dictates.

MDC

[markc]

I found some info in War Law for War Law unit types. For basic foot troops the scale is 1 bp at 1st level to 8+ s for 7th+ level. The pay scale gives a range of pay in most of the levels represented. But I am not going to recreate the whole table here. They also give the stats for Calvary and Admin troops and IMO spell casters would base their pay on the Admin track. For a 1st- 3rd level admin the base pay is 5-25 bp and at 13+ level there pay is 8+ gp. All pay is listed as on a weekly basis so you can extrapolate the info you need from the info. They also state that special units should have their pay increased by 1-3 levels or more for there unique combat skills. Again IMO depending on the spell caster and their spell knowledge the caster should be moved up +1  to +5 levels for their magical skill.
 My Castle and Ruins is not in my stack and i cannot get to my PDF copy at this time. If you would like some info from there just say so or drop me a PM and I will see what I can do.

MDC

[GrumpyOldFart]

Well, Treasure Companion states a silver standard, and looking at the rest of the economy it seems reasonable.
And yes,
 

How rare are casters, how dangerous is the casting, Lifegiving would certainly bump it up a bit, etc...

would all affect it. But as a *base* calculation, I think silver is probably good. Not sure about the $10 minimum. $11 to get a 1st level spellcaster to cast a 1st level spell seems rather steep. Maybe [caster lvl + (spell lvl x caster lvl)]. That way a 1st level caster only gets $2, a 5th casting a 5th gets $30, a 10th casting a 5th still gets his $60. High level spells that require high level casters get slightly *more* expensive than the other way. A 35th level caster casting a 20th level spell can charge $10 + (20 x 35 =700) = $710, or if figured as above it's $735. Not much difference at the top end, but a lot of difference with the low level guys.
Depends on how hungry you as a GM want your casters to be. $2 will still take care of your bills for a week or two if you're careful. $11 for a 1st level character casting a 1st level spell... he's just made a decent month, I'm thinking. It would certainly serve as justification for people wanting to learn spells in spite of whatever dangers or disadvantages you put in their way.

P.S. The only thing I see in Castles & Ruins is a table on pg. 68, "Servant Wage Chart", that gives a listing for generic "Magic-User" at 1 - 10 GP/month.

[rdanhenry]

I would expect few spell-casters to be using a pay-per-spell model. A salaried position would be what most would be on. Religious healers probably tend their religious community for free. Lay healers might work on an insurance model.

Not that it should be impossible to lure a spell-caster away from his regular work to do a bit on the side. But such arrangements are likely made on a case by case basis and the cost unlikely to be standardized except in two cases:

1) Widespread pay-per-cast spell use with a competitive market, in which case the cost will be fairly low. A spell caster who tries to charge those small fortunes for a single spell will be undercut by hungrier competitors.

2) Magic use has taken a guild structure and the guild regulates pricing. In this case, costs could be quite high, although government interference or a concern for public image may keep cost down, although nowhere near where they'd be in a competitive market.

Also, the type of spell and circumstances of casting are going to be more important than the level in pricing. Healing spells may be subsidized by a government that recognizes the value of a healthy population. Any sort of offensive magic is going to cost a great deal more because of the risks (not only in actual casting but future repercussions). Spells that deal in information may be cheaper if the information is also of some interest to the caster (or the caster is just a general busybody). If the spell-caster must travel to cast the desired spell, the hiring party must expect to pay for time lost and cover traveling expenses.

Strange outlanders with rumored wealth can expect to pay more than a townsman or rustic the spell-caster may well have known for decades. If the need for the spell is considerable (curse removal, healing, and the like) and the casting is done for mercenary purposes, the price is likely to depend principally on two things: how much the caster thinks the party has available with which to pay and how far they can be pushed before having one of those psychotic episodes for which "adventurers" are so well known.

On the other hand, if one has done a service for the local community, especially a small one, healing and minor spells may be done freely out of friendship. Or it might be done in trade for a future service. Trading in favors is an excellent approach for a spell-caster who hopes to have some control over his corner of the world, for whatever reason.

And all this assumes a fairly "advanced" society. In more "primitive" contexts, you'll be looking at some sort of barter or needing to negotiate with the chief to gain his favor rather than trying to hire the spell-caster.

[GrumpyOldFart]

And all this assumes a fairly "advanced" society. In more "primitive" contexts, you'll be looking at some sort of barter or needing to negotiate with the chief to gain his favor rather than trying to hire the spell-caster.

Well that was another point I thought should be made, especially if you enjoy yanking your players' chains by taking them far outside of their familiar social or economic context. In a pre-renaissance medieval culture, once you get out of town you're pretty much on a barter basis anyway. A lot of the "civilized" country a party passes through consists of tiny little villages of a hundred or so people total. Such a place is unlikely to have more than 2 or 3 people who possess any money at all, nor do most of the people have any real use for it.
Personally, I advise party members to stock up on trade goods if they're going to be a while between cities. Most places salt should be able to trade about even, weight for weight, with silver. IIRC for centuries in Europe pepper traded even weight for weight with gold. Axe heads, saw blades, drill bits and hammer heads may be worth quite a bit more than they cost you in town, not to mention being much more readily accepted as being valuable.

[markc]

  Another source you might check if you have it is the RMSS basic rule book as it has common costs for profesional services. I also think that there is another list of services in ...A 10' pole, but I cannot find mine at the moment.

 As they said above if there is a guild structure the guild may barter with the person who wants to have the spell cost and then send the caster to the person. Or if it there are multiple spell casters in the bis of selling spells the cost maybe lower. Also as they said one you get out of a big town you probably are in a barter situation.

  Are you making a list for your setting or is this a generic question?
MDC

[thrud]

markc> This is a fairly generic question. Last gaming session a pc was seriously injured and needed very specific healing. It turned out no one knew how much it usually cost to hire a healer or any form of professional for that matter.
And furthermore... where do you find those rare individuals when you need them?
The problem was solved (sort of...) but it reminded everyone thast this was something that we needed looking into.

I like using sp as well instead of gp, we'll just have to wait and see what the GM thinks.
In the grand scheme of things [Caster Lv x Spell Lv]= Cost (SP) should work and be easy to remember. (There's always room for negotiations based on supply and demand)

Rasyr> Thanks for the reference.

[markc]

Thurd,
 I agree that is in a very common question and something good to have info on. As you said it is nice to have an easy rule to figure out just how much as well as keeping the rule flexable enough for different setting.

MDC

[Old Man]

Currently I am using a flat 5 sp x level of spell for each cast. However the availability of the caster is based on ROCO I with a the ROCO IV table for their level.

I tend to see the population distribution being:
Lvls 1-5 - nearly 100% of people (1-99 on a d100 or more) - "Ordinary Folk"
Lvls 6-10 - nearly 100% of the remaining 1% (or less) - "Important Folk"
Lvls 11-15 - nearly 100% of 1% (or less) of the 1% - "Heroes"
Lvls 16-20 - neary 100% of 1% of 1% of 1% (you get the idea) - "Epic Heroes"

So the change of a caster of a > 10th level spell, other than hiring someone to do a ritual, is rare.

Regards,
Old Man

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Lvls 1-5 - nearly 100% of people (1-99 on a d100 or more) - "Ordinary Folk"
Lvls 6-10 - nearly 100% of the remaining 1% (or less) - "Important Folk"
Lvls 11-15 - nearly 100% of 1% (or less) of the 1% - "Heroes"
Lvls 16-20 - neary 100% of 1% of 1% of 1% (you get the idea) - "Epic Heroes"

Wow, that's a lot. If I read you correctly, 1% of your population are "Important Folk"? That's insanely high a percentile IMO. And 1 out of 10,000 are "Heroes"? Wow.

[mocking bird]

We use something similar to Rasyr's formula above.  If things get a little tricky we reference the Treasure Companion.

I would bet though that players would get paid a fraction of that if they tried to sell their spell casting services...

[GrumpyOldFart]

Lvls 1-5 - nearly 100% of people (1-99 on a d100 or more) - "Ordinary Folk"
Lvls 6-10 - nearly 100% of the remaining 1% (or less) - "Important Folk"
Lvls 11-15 - nearly 100% of 1% (or less) of the 1% - "Heroes"
Lvls 16-20 - neary 100% of 1% of 1% of 1% (you get the idea) - "Epic Heroes"

Wow, that's a lot. If I read you correctly, 1% of your population are "Important Folk"? That's insanely high a percentile IMO. And 1 out of 10,000 are "Heroes"? Wow.

Define "important". He did, as being greater than 5th level. That probably puts your plumber into the "important" category and to be fair, if you have plumbing issues he is. 1 in 10,000 as greater than 10th? Hmmm... so in a city of a million people there would be 100 of them. Greater than 10th... that's what, senior journeyman or junior master craftsman? If that's unreasonable, I'd say it's likely a tad too low. And only one person in that city of a million is over 15th? Hmmm....

If it works for your game then it works, and good enough. I suspect the percentages are low, especially at high levels, as compared to RL modeling. But in order to actually know that, you'd have to successfully put "a level of experience" into real life terms, which I don't think anyone has managed.
Then again, the point is not whether it accurately reflects RL, the point is whether or not it works. Apparently it does.