Topic: Priests Arnak?

[kmanktelow]

Hi, Walt, et al,

There's an old GMing trick, when you've got players who, as we in the UK say , "want to know the in's and out's of the cat's bum"- turn around and ask them, "So, how is your character, going to find out?"

It's amazing how useful that trick is. It's especially useful when you, as a GM, accidentally goof up- and the players want to know what is going on.

As for the Priests Arnak- to keep on topic- the thing to remember with them is that they work in the 'shadows'. They aren't an open priesthood, with regular services- like the United Church of Orhan. And, I really doubt that they have a cosy chat, tea and biscuits (cookies) afterwards.

For instance Korianas, is/was working as the tutor to the Viscount Ridgeston- and teaching him Magic. And, whilst doing that, he was trying to interest Lukas in the summoning of Demons. He's certainly not acting as a member of a Religious Order- trying to gain converts. He's trying to subvert Lukas into serving the Unlife- which is an important thing to remember when dealing with the Priests Arnak.

They use subversive tactics.

They certainly don't arrive in town, and introduce themselves:

"Hi, my name's Aeryk, and I'm the High-Priest of Yarthraak, one of the six Orders of Arnak." or whoever, they happen to be. And, unless they have found a potential Adherent, they certainly wouldn't introduce them to even a tame form of their particular brand of 'Religion'. Even, when the High-Priest of Yarthraak was Regent in Helyssa, I doubt that many- if any- knew that he was anything other than a wise, Elven sage, who had served the King, and his father and grandfather (etc) well.

In fact, the Characters knowledge of the Priests Arnak should be limited to "they were a group of evil priests, destroyed in Wars of Dominion." The players should be made to work very, very hard for any more information on them- and even then, they should just be given hints that there's a creepy religious order around.

If they really want to know what they are about, then they must start on the slippery slope to serving the Unlife. And, even then, the Priests Arnak aren't going to really trust them until they submit whole-heartedly to serving the Unlife. By, which time, their Essaence Soul will be zero- and effectively they become NPC's, anyway.

Hope this helps,

All the Best,

Kevin.

[Walt]

Okay, wrong button, everything gone. So the short version:

For sure it helps Kevin, it was good to adress cleary the topic of "they work in the shadow" and I agree with al the stuff you wrote about Arnak.

With the exception of the situation in Helyssa and the Yarthraak. You don?t wrestle the power of the governance in mere 25 years away and ally with the bad, bad guy in the west and his Lugo armies without a really good standing, probably mostly in the lower classes (I think Marc and someone else gave some examples - show them a future and feed them and they die for you) In advance, I don?t think that the example of a military dictatorship would fit-because they have a different common denominator.
So, I?m german and out of our own history I know that a small guy with mad ideas can come to power.
Providing something to ident with.
The allying with Ulor is easy. On this I will use Baron Boshkar and Vorn and a secret treaty made public in which Vorn allies with the Rhakhaan Empire. So their is the need for Helyssa to find thei own stron partner, and this will be understandable for everbody Ulor to counteract the thread of the Vorn-Rhakhaan alliance.

But still, first of all the Yarth needs to have a good standing in Helyssa. And this can be only achieved in the public in my opinion. Leading to all above and starting questions.

PS: I know your old GM trick - I think to often used it destroys the fun of the players. But again this becuase my players like more roleplaying stories instead of plot-driven stories.

[fac]

I always thought that Arnak priests are tricky enough to lie to the people, so they can teach altruism, be fair, etc. without any problem. 

They don't have to explain how good is Unlife if there is no need to do it. In my game Yarthraak opened a few hospitals in Cynar and Norek to attend the sick, and they claimed to be the guardians of the old religion of the Sea Drake. Also in my game Kier's father was lost while hunting whales so he fell to the sea, that was used by the priests to explain that the sea has called him because they were deviating of the Sea Drake and worshipping Orhan gods.

So with a mix of "good old days" when we were an empire as big as Rhakhaan and a profile of healers and advisors, they were able to take power and convince the other nobles of Helyssa that allowing Lorgalis' army to pass to fight against Rhakhaan was good for Helyssa. Of course half of the army of lugroki was Arnak's army but who knew that tidbit? 

[Walt]

Hi fac,

for the "lost why hunting whales" I gave you an idea point. That?s brilliant! How fitting. (I?m wondering if I ever described the hunting accident to my players? I could use that!)

But I think that?s the core of the discussion: Priests of Arnak completly acting in "the shadows" like Kevin it put vs. an offensive acting Yarthraak cult in Helyssa.

Did you ever flesh out this old "religion of the seadrake"? Because that?s the direction I?m thinking at the moment. I have at the moment the vague idea, that Aeryk did build his tower on the top (the entrance) of the old sea-drake caves. And this kraken thing is guarding the entrance. And out of (what?) reasons, Aeryk has the possibilty to usurp and use this old power for his Unlife goals.
I also have the vague idea that to attune fully on the sea-drake pendant it?s necessary to "free" the sea-drake. I?m still not sure if on a spiritual level or in real - still a lot of undeveloped ideas.
But it has to be a hard fight to get attuned, layer for layer, to the Sea-Drake pendant. By the way, it springs into my mind that the player wearing the pendant is a Ky?taari Seer. Weren?t their also Sea-Drakes in the Mur Fostyr region?

To come back to the standing of the priest in Helyssa: I did it the same like you-public feedings, hospitals, money and food for the poor. For the nobility nearly the same, but on a higher level.

[Hawkwind]

If you want to run the Priests Arnak as being a little more visible, then I would use the Priors of the Ori in Stargate as an example of how to run them. I wouldn't use them this way in my campaign, at least not in Jaiman or Emer, but I could see them taking this approach in some of the less civilised areas of Kulthea.

Hawk

[egdcltd]

but I could see them taking this approach in some of the less civilised areas of Kulthea.

Although, technically, the Priests only operate in Jaiman.

[tuanamar]

In my campaign The Yaarthdraak is the official church in U'Lyshak. They originate from a cult in former times which prayed to a higher being in this case a Seadrake. They were a naval nation at least till the end of SE II and in SEIII  as Ulor wasnt so strong. In my believe of SW and as mentioned in some RM books there could be lesser beings which rise to gods, if these are real lesser beings or incarnations of the Gods of Orhan makes no big difference (see e.g. the Godness of Sun Ariaana of the Kytaari). The Seadrake was one of these lesser gods - maybe a real drake, or a god which assumes his form - or a Dragonlord. Whatever the cult became a church in the times when U'Lyshak started to be a crown realm. In my history the Arnak of U'Lyshak named themselves after this cult and corrupted it. It is the perfect hiding. They have influence and can preach how it fits into their schemes, they can travel openly and have the respect of earned priests. They recruit from the ranks of the "normal" priests and the Gorath were "normal" paladins of Yaarthdraak (Messengers from the God - how well fitting,when they ride a whale). Of course only the worthy ones are introduced into the secret of this cabal.
One should also not forget that the Arnak can perform "wonders" e.g. raise the dead - they even channel powers (but the source...) In the time as the Yaarthdraak formed an alliance with Lorgalis against Rhahakan it was all for U'Lyshak and the stability of the realm. As Kier showed that it was perverted, they claimed that only a few corrupted it and they started a "purge", the high priest goes under cover for some centuries and sends a puppet for him. Still Yaarthdraak is the god of U'Lyshak.

In my campaign Yaarthdraak really exists and he was a real seadrake, a son of Shaal and got due to whatever reasons corrupted (typical greek father-son tragedy) by the Yaarthdraak, but as there is one follower with a true heart...this is the magic of the essence.

The Gaath are the open church of Arnak or Aijakar (Streams of Blood, they wear the red ropes) which pray to the Syrkakar, these humans are totally corrupted. Even their Messengers are recruited from these humans. The Athimurl (the white) operates more subtly, but still open in the north.
Dansart is hiding (Frelik was a drawback and Sulthon gave them another reminder that hiding is better) and working through the ranks of the United Church.
Lyak is engaged to bring Rhahakan and Wulris down and from Thargondaak I have no idea...both operates obviously in secret. There must be something see the new module Xa-ar - but it cannot be such a thing, they had 10.000 years and still there is live ... losers.

Hope it helped a little bit, sorry my english sucks,

best regards
TA

[Walt]

Hi Tuanamar,

I like very much the part of the Sea-Drake Cult being an old Helyssian cult in the second age. Thinkin of it, it would also make sense for the work of the Loremasters, taking an old cult, making this cult "official" with the symbols, the corwns, and therefore also restraining this cult. This would be a proper Loremaster work, trying to cultivate people.
Personally, I don?t think it?s necessary that this real Sea-Drake is a child of Shaal. The backlinks to the gods of Orhan are far to often used in SW. Much more I like the idea that the Shaal followers tried to usurp this cult, creating the story that this sea-drake is a child of Shaal!

[Walt]

Hi there,

does anybody know some adventure, module, book, whatever where is described a similar situation like tuanamar described? Some kind of corrupting a godling, banishing him into the void, abusing his power? Something related to Sea-Drakes, or only the Sea?

[Elrik]

Usually I don't get involved in these conversation, this one interests me because it can be handled so many ways.

Whenever I read about the Unlife attempting to gobble up the Essence (Existence) I think Terry did several years of Tia Chi. The entire Battle is like the spiralling of the Ying and Yang.

The Unlife as we know it is a single idea, driving itself through the bowels of creative. Attributing an alignment to it is the same as saying your Car is Good and his Motorbike is bad. I always saw the Unlife as the Distilled Child of Entropy.

If you will, think of the Universe as a Large brain that we are all part of. It has two primary thoughts; Existence  and Nothingness. In the game Existence is ancient, slow and almost pondering. Nothingness is fleet, hard and decisive.

At this points different Schools of Thought exist. Some think the Roles are turned, that Creation is the Enemy of Existence and that Nothingness (the Void) is sleeping it's way across the cosmos gently absorbing the mess of Life.

In a Human way of thinking, the Unlife is more a focused Stream of Consciousness. It has a single goal, to return the Universe to a Neutral state, by removing all children of Existence. This goal is antithesis to the ?Human Condition.? I presume that in many cases all living thinking beings will have a sense of survival. So when a Mortal Mind is ?blessed? by the Unlife they start to comprehend It's cause. When the Unlife begins to ?control? the mortal it is more along the line of emotional focus. Eventually the Super Ego is replaced by the Unlife and the PC becomes a NPC.   

At that point the NPC is ?Evil? or my personal favourite, ?Truly Evil?. Not because they are Truly Evil but because they represent EVERYTHING we fear and in many cases refuse to understand. We call them evil and they are in truth a part of a Natural Order.

Suffice to say that we as Players do not  want that Natural Order to dominate. As beings connected to Existence, we instinctively fight the Unlife. In truth we are Pawns of a larger game, a simple battle between two opposing and necessary forces. This is not Order and Chaos.

So when you come to the ideas of the Unlife, it's Theology, you are really just questioning the Beings that Work for it. Keep in mind that Power Crazed Men, Women, Elves and others tend to be creative thinkers. After 5000 years of reading, experiencing, doing and finally putting plans into action, can create one hell of a villain. Success and failure boil down into a stew of reason that can only lend itself to brilliance. To add to that individuals mental prowess, they are plugged into the over whelming experience of the Unlife. The force is made up of trillions of past lives, billions of worlds destroyed and an endless archive of sneaky plans.

To add a bit more detail to the madness, imagine the endless voices, ideas, ravings and loss of the members of the Unlife. It would never stop, sometimes it would be helpful, others detrimental.

I am a Priest Arnak...
Who the Priest is working with decides their approach. When they go into a city, citizens expect and need a structure and a face. People want to see a pretty God that represents their desires, revenge or hates. Sometimes they want a god that presents hope and faith. All perfect tools for the Priest. They teach their dogma and change the way people see themselves, their friends and family, leaders and the Powers that Be. The priests don't have to convert an entire community, just a few of the more respected individuals. The rest will follow.

When approaching the poor and weak they come as holy men. They can dress like any one of the known Faiths  and never say a word about their God. People will presume they are what they present themselves as. When the village asks for help the Priests give it. They pray, in a none committal way, and incite new ideas into a structure that is thousands of years old. Words like Freedom, rights and self awareness are not words that the Current Leaders want their followers to think about. This leads to conflict and that leads to confrontation and eventually revolt. Leaders are forced to put their peasants back in their place, and that simply creates more division.

Words are powerful things. Give the right man hope and you create decent among the farmers and common folk tired of starving so that their lord can live and grow fat. The people are already angry, a priest just needs to give them a bit more hope and direction. ?Your God is With you!?, ?You will not fail because we watch over you.?, ?Wait till the time is right, we will tell you when. Watch for our signal.?

When confronted about their faith, which God they follow the Priest would answer with ?I follow the Wind and the Sky, the Sun and the Moon.? or ?My faith is for those that believe, not those that must question because I am different.? Say the latter in front of a room full of poor people, when the big wealthy adventurers are questioning the poor Priest.

I think that truth is one of the most powerful details of the Dark Priesthood. They don't have to lie. Their faith is about Freedom and Faith. I would say that a great many of the Priests do help and offer hope. My own party has been healed by a dark priest, and they had no idea, the party assumed she was a follower of Orhan because of her cloths, but no one asked.

Wondering priests would wear practical cloths, with the colours of the faith they want to behave like. They would have a different Holy Symbol stating they are part of an ?Older Order?. The priest in the city would dress to impress. Their temple would also reflect that view.

A priests word is his life. Tell the truth, the hard truth, that makes men turn away. Try and keep things general;

?Those Elves, all that understanding yet they refuse to help.?

?Damn those Loremasters, if only they had helped when you asked your crops would not be dead now. Let me show you how this is done.?

?Your leaders grow fat off of your lives, just look at old Pak, died in his field, worked to death so some nobles brat can go and learn to be a better tyrant.?

Unlike a Death Cult, there is no immediate doom. The Priests don't have to give a time and date for the end of all things. Also unlike a Cult, the villagers can and will still interact with a ?Normal? priest of Orhan. In truth, as stated before, that only helps the Arnak cause by telling people to get into line, bow their heads and be good sheep they reinforce what the Arnak Priest said.

By following this idea, I have had players convert to Arnak. They never fell to the unlife, because the Unlife doesn't need them to. It just needs them to act when the time is right. So the priests wander and preach and help and subvert all with the truth. I at least try to keep the Lies to a minimum as the Detect Lie skill and Spell are always handy.

I don't think I covered all the topics here or how they may function but that is how I work mine. Just my two bits to a very interesting topic.

[DonMoody]

... they are in truth a part of a Natural Order.

I've always thought of the Unlife (and those corrupted by the Unlife) as being outside "The Natural Order".

Unlife: The Enemy of life on the Shadow World; an evil force whose source is unknown.
Acting always through minions, it seeks only the destruction of all life.
It is theorized that the Unlife is in fact anti-energy, consuming life force and the very Ess?nce.

I think "whose source is unknown" says a lot.

DonMoody

[Elrik]

I was waiting for the "But Elrik, you spaz, the Unlife followed the Lords of Orhan into this dimension. How can you argue that when it FOLLOWED them here. How is that for the Natural Order!?"

I guess you could say that the Unlife is a blight on the universe, a disease flowing from dimension to dimension, feeding on tastie Essence rich environments. Still I would say it is a part of the cycle.

If the Unlife was created by a being, super or not, then it would be outside the Natural Order. Till Terry Lets that one out of the bag,  I think the Unlife is just another less then pleasant part of the Universe.

It wouldn't be very exciting or interesting if Terry said the Unlife comes from 300 Main West at Frazier, building 3 apartment 506, New York New York.  =-)

Again it is just my two bits. 

E

[yammahoper]

Think of unlife as drak matter; oblivious of our existence as we are of its, until a freak cataclysm brings awareness of US to IT.

lynn

[Elrik]

Lynn: I am going to politely disagree, but I will not say you are wrong by any means. I think if you said Dark Matter to most of the crew on the Forum they would know what you meant. When I talked to my Son, who averages 92 in Science, he had really no idea what Dark Matter was. Well, beyond Startgate and Star Trek.

When I gave him the exert out of the book (below) he said "Harsh..."...
Unlife: The Enemy of life on the Shadow World; an evil force whose source is unknown.
Acting always through minions, it seeks only the destruction of all life.
It is theorized that the Unlife is in fact anti-energy, consuming life force and the very Ess?nce.

He really doesn't 'get' what the Unlife is and as GM I am fine with that. The PC that gets it, is already Insane.

Again, not trying to pick a fight.

E

[yammahoper]

No problem Elrik.  I have in previous post described in near painstaking detail what the unlife is in my game.  I really like that in a RPG setting the total "facts" of cosmology and spirituality can be "known."

Me geek that way, uhg.

lynn

[Walt]

Hey, I?m missing the culture of constructive controversy. If everybody has got to excuse each and every time he disagrees to something than their can?t be a full on argument, can it?

There was the thesis that the Priest Arnaks have been created right to counterbalance the 6 realms. Assuming this is correct (and their are some timeline hints to this) I would suspect that their is a mastermind a hierarchy level over the Priest of Arnak. But this guy still couldn?t be the Unlife Awarness follwing your both thoughts (Lynn & Eric), or?

Lately I spoke with some friends, roleplayers, not knowing anything of Shadow World. After a discussion of three hours she fetched a pen and put the Unlife in the "Evil" and "Order" grid.

(still no cosmological describtion, that?s for sure Lynn, but the start of a hint)

I like the interpretation very much, "Essaence" being good-chaotic and the "Unlife" being evil-orderly.


@Lynn: are you refering to your posts in the "demons something" thread?

[Elrik]

Years ago I got into a conversation, at least I thought it was a conversation. I was being my usual smart ass self and the next thing I know I am cut from the board, got a letter from the admin telling me I was bumped and in the future I should watch how I talk to people. Normally, with that sort of thing I would give them the bird, and move on, but I was enjoying the conversation and still have no idea what I did wrong. That was a long time ago...

If Lynn and I were drinking beer, I would bellow some derogatory disagreement, I suspect Lynn would throw beer at me in response and we would move on to the next point, as I paid for the next round. My sense of humour doesn't translate well to Message boards, emails, a previous boss, an ex-girlfriend and my mother. So I try to be extra polite, because my grandmother would be proud that at least in one place in the World, I was being pleasant. =-)

Whoooo, way off topic! Sorry

[Walt]

Gave you a laugh point!
I?m not to much in chats, and coming from Europe, even training the dispute, I?m missing here a little bit the direct (bur respectful) confronation. But if you get so fasrtly bumped I can understand it better.
And yeah, nothing better than a good argument, also over roleplaying topics, and drinking far to much beer!

[Walt]

The following was posted from Mocking Bird in the Loremaster thread. I only have the feeling that it should be also posted here, because I can imagine the Priests going on like this:

"Crowns?  Collars.  The Crowns are the most insidious of chains for they conquer the Will through the illusion of Peace.  The Peace of stagnation where freewill has been stripped away.  The invisible chains of servitude to the whims of Adraax.  He, and his Loremaster minions, who treat outsiders as children, or pets in cages called empires, who need to be controlled 'for their own protection'.  Protection from what?  They would rather you be kept ingnorant.  Rather it is they who need protection from their puppets who one day may see their strings.  It is only then when the oppressed rebel against their masters can true freedom can be attained.

Rise up.  Stand against these 'rulers' who are but pawns to a greater power.  A power who quakes at the thought of a free Jaiman.  There are those who still fight for freedom.  There are those who have the will, nay, the duty to stand up to such velvet tyrants and take from them what was not theirs to give.

Stand up to your masters who deceive you and call slavery peace.  You must fight to live, or die, but it will be your life, your choice, your Will.  Is it not better to die on the battlefield is a cause that is just where glory can be had rather than an old man in a cell?   

Is Lorgalis your enemy?  Most certainly for he seeks what Adraax and his pets already have - control.  Can an army of slaves defeat him?  Andraax seems to think so.  Do you?"

[DonMoody]

I doubt the Priests Arnak know that much about the Crowns and how they work.

I also doubt they know much about Andraax.

DonMoody