Topic: Diary entry four: Lets dig into the setting!

[John @ ICE]

There were some good suggestions to the last post.  I'm glad people said no need to make it historically acurate because its a pain in the ass to get the time line correct - even sources sometimes conflict!  I want to get the day to day stuff right (how they dressed, how they ate), but dont want to be too stuck to correctness on timelines, politics, etc.

So here is my opening bit to the setting:

“The Time is the mid-900s AD and all of the British Isles are divided by kingdoms, principalities and earldoms and the occasional independent city- state ruled by “clerics” -  warrior monks of Christianity.  These kingdoms are peopled by many types of tribes: the Britons, Angles, Saxons, Vikings (Danish, Norwegian), Picts, Welsh and Scots.  Ireland was also divided into several kingdoms and princedoms, some ruled by Vikings and others ruled by the Irish kings and princes.

The King of the Anglo-Saxons of Wessex is the most powerful king in all of Britain:  Edward the Elder sits in uneasy truce with the Danish King of Anglia, Guthrum II. The Kingdoms of York and Scotland were to the north. To the west lay the kingdoms of Wales, of which Gwynedd in the north and Dyfed in the south are the most powerful. All pay homage to the king in Wessex, but some of these kings and princes are quite independent and seek to break free of their duties to the Wessex king.  And for many kingdoms, Wessex is far away and has little influence on life within their borders for all but the most high-born.”

The internet is amazing.  I used to write all this stuff into lined notebooks and draw maps and pictures by hand, or use pictures from Dragon magazine.  Now there is a plethora of free artwork and even ready-made maps one can use to get a game started.  About 60% of the work I am doing is cut and paste, the rest writing.  I’m pulling mainly from historical sources, fan sites and the occasional site that seems to be writing new material based on historical sources.  So now I have a campaign book coming together which I expect to be 8 to 10 pages long.  Right now I have completed the political / geographic description of the world and its time frame, as well as a “what people believed” section which introduces the land of the faeries or “fae” where I use the name Arcadium, and how they intereact with humans and how geographically they come into contact with humans.  But I don’t spend much time on what faeries are at this stage…

Of course, their magical nature is revealed which moves nicely into a description of magic, which starts thus:

“Yes, even magic which very much exits in Olde England!      “Bagh!” you say!? 

Well, I can tell you, only a fool does not believe in magic and the power of holy men!  Everyone knows magic is real and works (usually…)  But of course one must be careful in these times, for the priests of the Church do not much like magic as too often they find it used for selfish and evil reasons.” Here, I discuss the difference between Sorcery and Wizardry, and further between “learned and courtly” mages, and common “hedge wizards”.

I have chosen that sorcery will mostly be considered “bad” magic as it involves the control and enslavement of spirits, elementals, demons and the dead, while magic generally affects the physical properties of the world directly through the study of ancient Celtic, Roman and Greek texts, and the use of incantations and components.  Hedge wizards have the simpler spells passed down usually verbally and may be the local “healer” or “fortune teller”.

[GrumpyOldFart]

The internet is amazing.  I used to write all this stuff into lined notebooks and draw maps and pictures by hand, or use pictures from Dragon magazine.  Now...

On the one hand, trying for historical accuracy can turn the whole thing into drudgery. But given the right players, it can also give it a "scavenger hunt" subtext as they try to find ways to use the historical depth of the cultures represented to their own advantage. If they're up for it, your players can teach themselves an awful lot about how to dig for (and compare) sources by doing this.

Do it right and you can teach your kids how to have an automatic advantage in anything involving research or troubleshooting. Actually that's not right, they'll teach themselves, all you'll have to do is stand clear and watch their dust.

Figure out ways that what they learn about the actual culture can give them an advantage in game play. Smile and be proud when they unexpectedly kick your poor GM butt because they found out something online or wherever that you didn't realize they knew. If your storyline can stand the strain of it, perhaps even give extra in-game rewards for finding and using such knowledge. The things they learn because of it will give them an edge on their peers all their lives. Not because of the history they learned, but because of what they taught themselves about how to learn.

We all try to keep player knowledge and character knowledge separate, but the mere fact that the character is fictional means there will be a lot of character knowledge the player will never realize. The more they get into the actual history behind a historically based setting, the more those gaps fill in.

[John @ ICE]

...Figure out ways that what they learn about the actual culture can give them an advantage in game play. Smile and be proud when they unexpectedly kick your poor GM butt because they found out something online or wherever that you didn't realize they knew. If your storyline can stand the strain of it, perhaps even give extra in-game rewards for finding and using such knowledge. The things they learn because of it will give them an edge on their peers all their lives. Not because of the history they learned, but because of what they taught themselves about how to learn.

We all try to keep player knowledge and character knowledge separate, but the mere fact that the character is fictional means there will be a lot of character knowledge the player will never realize. The more they get into the actual history behind a historically based setting, the more those gaps fill in.

This is a brilliant idea, and i was half way there when wanting them to do arts and crafts on their character portrait and writing when doing their backstory.  But of course they have a whole historical WORLD to discover that they know almost nothing about today (and its not like I know so much either!).  It really is like discovering another world.

I have some really detailed ideas now for the first adventure and I will be able to bring this idea into alot of play since the centre of the first module is the classroom...

[markc]

  It sounds very interesting and IMHO has a lot of potential.


  I also like the idea of giving extra Exp for players who look up material on the net, print stuff off, read sections of a specific website and providing answers to questions.
  In fact a linked adventure website with some questions would also be great.
MDC
 

[John @ ICE]

   In fact a linked adventure website with some questions would also be great.
MDC

Mark - can you elaborate - not sure what you have in mind?

[GrumpyOldFart]

I don't know what he has in mind, but I know what thoughts came into my head upon reading it.

Have a web page the GM can update periodically that gives insights into where the game could possibly go, given what's already happened in play. For example if you meet the local witch or the local priest or a sergeant in the local Lord's guard, later the website can ask if their behavior is typical for a witch or a priest or a guard sergeant of that time and place, and if not, what that may tell you. What 'social leverage' do you expect to have on _____, and they on you, just by virtue of the fact that they're a witch or a priest or a guard sergeant in that time and place? What can you guess of their possible true motivations, as opposed to their stated motivations, by what they do and don't say or do?

Potentially it could make them better gamers, give you more plot hooks to play with, and ultimately make it easier for the GM to provide the players with the game they imagined themselves as playing when they started.

2cp

[markc]

   In fact a linked adventure website with some questions would also be great.
MDC

Mark - can you elaborate - not sure what you have in mind?

 What I mean is that you can have specific articles and info on the website. After answering a few questions (get Exp) they can move on to the next activity. You can do a whole bunch of various things for various ages, Such as in the painting what is the color of this "persons" dress to this painting is of "X" castle look on the net or link to info on the site, and see when it was built. 
  So basically it is a pre-approved adventure material that is linked to the story and your young adventures can "do" it during down time or even with you watching and helping them along when they have questions.
  If you have a projector or can link it to your TV it would have a lot less of a homework feel to it and more of a video game feel.




  Side note: I was also struck again when watching an old episode of One Upon a Time (OUaT) where people were kicked into a "Classic Fairy Tale Land" and were prevented from going home until something is done. In OUaT there is a double whammy in that the original village was taken from a Fairy Tale and shunted into the world of no magic or little magic and they cannot leave the boundary around their town either.
  IMHO this is a great kids vehicle in that if there is a way for them to switch back and forth in time and location, leverage the internet for information to aid them in the "past". You can possibly let them take things back if the have tons of info but in general I do not think it should be possible or common.


Does that help?
MDC

[markc]

GrumpyOldFart,
 Sorry I had finished my post and thought I would reply to you directly in another post.


 You you can have info on local watch, priests, etc from historical sources and maybe have them print a picture the find on the net, or just save the picture to your HD. Maybe have them create a heraldic device, or learn the parts and color one or more free shapes unto a pre-made design of a shield. You can see that this can be helpful but it also can take a lot of work, and at the beginning it will bleed $, but if it takes off it will make $, especially if you can sell it (the idea and materials) before others jump on the band wagon.   

I don't know what he has in mind, but I know what thoughts came into my head upon reading it.

Have a web page the GM can update periodically that gives insights into where the game could possibly go, given what's already happened in play. For example if you meet the local witch or the local priest or a sergeant in the local Lord's guard, later the website can ask if their behavior is typical for a witch or a priest or a guard sergeant of that time and place, and if not, what that may tell you. What 'social leverage' do you expect to have on _____, and they on you, just by virtue of the fact that they're a witch or a priest or a guard sergeant in that time and place? What can you guess of their possible true motivations, as opposed to their stated motivations, by what they do and don't say or do?

Potentially it could make them better gamers, give you more plot hooks to play with, and ultimately make it easier for the GM to provide the players with the game they imagined themselves as playing when they started.

2cp

[Rochndil]

The idea of involving "edutainment" in an RPG may not be original, but I think it definitely has potential. You obviously don't want to get too pedantic (kids generally hate being lectured to), but imagine posing a question (research assignment) at the end of each game session. The players all have the opportunity (not requirement) to learn something before the NEXT game, and can receive (modest) in-game rewards for doing so.

And of course, remember that where history helps you tell the story, use it! That (as you've seen) saves you tons of time re-inventing the wheel. But where it bogs you down, feel free to take liberties. It's YOUR story after all, and any good bard knows when to...selectively enhance the tale. Feedback is also key here. Pay close attention to what works for your players (and watch as they change and develop), and "play" to their strengths.

Rochndil, still slowly reading through RM(B)...

[John @ ICE]

Yeah this is good stuff.  Of course, my butt is getting kicked on time, though the internet makes it a lot easier.  but what I think I might do is make a list of all the cool learning activities they COULD do, and see how i work them into the sessions.  Each task could have penalties for sub par work and bonuses for par to above par work . here is the list I'm starting, although you will see some of these are "borrowed" from the comments here:

1) a local noble asks you to design a heraldric device and wants to know the meaning of the devices and colours so it fits his noble history.

2) its your turn for gong farming (what is gong farming, the kids say!)- Better figure it out quick because you need to show up and get it done by Tuesday!

3) the cook at the castle is sick! make and serve a dinner!

4) the jongleur has taken ill! plan an evening of entertainment for the local noble and recruit villagers to make it an evening to remember.

5) herbs and healing?  certainly could bring bid-ages beliefs into the game there and make it work in-game.

others?

[GrumpyOldFart]

5) herbs and healing?  certainly could bring bid-ages beliefs into the game there and make it work in-game.

When I first said something about the witch and the priest, this is what I was thinking. Given the exact same goal (healing), but approaching 2 different people (witch vs. priest), you could quite easily make a hopeless hash out of your attempts to persuade them to do what you want merely by talking to either of them as if they were the other one. They'll have different levers and different prejudices.

Do badly enough, you could be run out of town, burned at the stake, or cursed.

[markc]

Yeah this is good stuff.  Of course, my butt is getting kicked on time, though the internet makes it a lot easier.  but what I think I might do is make a list of all the cool learning activities they COULD do, and see how i work them into the sessions.  Each task could have penalties for sub par work and bonuses for par to above par work . here is the list I'm starting, although you will see some of these are "borrowed" from the comments here:

1) a local noble asks you to design a heraldric device and wants to know the meaning of the devices and colours so it fits his noble history.

2) its your turn for gong farming (what is gong farming, the kids say!)- Better figure it out quick because you need to show up and get it done by Tuesday!

3) the cook at the castle is sick! make and serve a dinner!

4) the jongleur has taken ill! plan an evening of entertainment for the local noble and recruit villagers to make it an evening to remember.

5) herbs and healing?  certainly could bring bid-ages beliefs into the game there and make it work in-game.

others?

 All very good, and you could even provide links to web sites you would like them to go to.


1a) Heraldic Device: Find one in a Museum, take a picture and talk about it. (Modern or older)
1b) Can lead into the peer groups.


Drawing:
a) draw some animals you might find on a farm from the adventure
b) draw a small village you might expect in "Area A"


Programs
a) I think there are programs out there that let you make up word puzzles. This might or might not be a good thing. If it is short it might be a recap of last adventures happenings. 


Music:
a) pick a song for the inn
b) Pick a song for "event A"


MDC

[John @ ICE]

Nice - keep it coming.

I like the music one - great idea as both my kids play instruments.

[jdale]

One GM I had used to give us "soundtracks" for the campaign. There were specific songs for major characters and events. There were things on the soundtrack we didn't know what they were for until it happened. He also had us pick songs for our characters. It's the sort of thing that keeps you thinking about the game between games...

[markc]

Radical Idea:
  After watching a show on BBC America which was called The Secret of Crickley Hall I thought that the idea of a modern day family who's parents restored/worked on older homes (or new homes in historic or semi historic places) could be a great setting.
  The kids could switch back and forth from modern locals to past/fantasy locations for various adventures. Each location could have some educational info such as important religious history as well as some just fun adventure ideas. As always not everything has to be educational.
  Anyway after watching the show I thought it was a great idea to be able to jump back and forth from a modern location to a fictional-historical-fantasy setting that is linked to the modern day location. So maybe the kids see a room in an old building that is not noticeable in the new building but in modern times they find a way into the sealed room with some cool artifacts from the past. That could also lead to some modern adventures about museums, artifacts and the shady underworld dealing with stolen historical items.


Anyway I think you can see where I was going with this.
MDC 

[JimiSue]

Just thinking about the music one - I saw on a website a long time ago about a group whose GM would essentially "assign" a popular band to a specific bard in the campaign - so if there was background music on, they would know who was playing. He would also allow a PC bard to pick their own artist and as they levelled up gain access to more of their hit tracks...

If both the kids are musical then there is obvious good involved in giving them research into period instruments and musical notation, or even to actually perform a piece of music. While this is potentially limited mainly to plainchant, there are sure to be other bits and pieces that could be extrapolated.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I did 'Baby Got Back' as a plainchant once... and yes, it was every bit as "Oh, that's BAD..." as it sounds.