Author Topic: ICE Adventure Modules  (Read 10139 times)

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Offline RandalThor

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2012, 11:51:06 AM »
It'd be nice to think so, but the facts don't support the idea. They make a lot more off their "creative drives" than I do, I can tell you that. I'm fairly certain that Britney had made more than I've earned in my entire life before she went through puberty.

So on the one hand, if the module designers took Britney Spears' advice on what should be done "creatively" with it, I suspect that would drive my likelihood of wanting to buy it WAY down... but somebody who's a millionaire before she's 30 has every right not to sweat too much over my approval. If it hurts her feelings too terribly badly, she can cry all the way to the bank, ya know?
First of all, I am sorry you didn't take that as the joke it was meant to be, but I stand by the meaning behind it. In the field of pop music those two do have better abilities to judge who is a better bet and who is not. But, in the TTRPG industry I am sure you have a much better idea along those lines than those two, as I am almost 100% certain neither of them has ever even handled an RPG book.

How long have you been in the hobby? If I remember right it is around as long as I have, 30+ years right? Well, if it was an actual honest profession with medical, dental and other benefits, both of us would be able to retire with pretty-nice pensions. But, alas it isn't. It is a hobby. So, we do it because we want to, not because we have to in order to make a living. I think that the word want is key here, because we tend to do much better at, and learn much more about, things that we want to do/have. So, do not sell yourself short, because locked up inside your head is decades of gaming experience, in both the hobby side and the industry side. (In the sense that you have seen games come and go, some quicker than others, and that had given you a fair bit of knowledge about the industry.)

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A very good example of things with purely subjective, luxury value that I obviously don't have the ability to judge. I would long since have expected Britney to be one of those "where are they now?" used-to-be-child-stars, the ones you can't remember their names until someone reminds you. "Oh yeah, them."
Well, I dare to say, that industry doesn't necessary follow any sane rules or guidlines, so the fact that you cannot "call it" there isn't necessarily a bad thing...

My personal opinion is $60 for a supplement is too much. I think that sort of price would stop a lot of people from either being willing, or able, to buy it. I believe RM needs to get some mass market appeal again, and that's going to mean making supplements that are more reasonably priced. Not that a good $60 book wouldn't be nice.
I see Fantasy Flight Games doing quite well with some pretty expensive books, suppliments ranging from $40 to $50 and the core books around $60. But, they are good looking books, that tend to be full-color (even if muted for tone/flavor reasons), glossy and hard-back. (I don't know about you, but I love hard-backed books more than soft-cover - though when I found the soft-cover AD&D Player's Handbook and Monster Manual, I just had to get them! Nostalgia, thy name is debt.)

So, the industry can handle them, they just have to be worth it. Example of what I would buy: Take the 1989 Jamain, Land of Twilight suppliment for Shadow World, double its page count with all sorts of cool new information, more maps, a couple more adventure seeds, more NPCs and creatures, possibly even a new profession or two that is indicative of one of the specific Jamaini cultures, put that all between some hard covers with nice art (heck, even just use what it already has, I like the Dragonlord Citadel it is very high-fantasy), and I will gladly purchase that for $60. I would much rather pay $60 for that than Dark Heresy.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2012, 01:51:22 PM »
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...locked up inside your head is decades of gaming experience, in both the hobby side and the industry side.

I'm good at spotting if something will work, not so much at whether it will sell.

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...that industry doesn't necessary follow any sane rules or guidlines...

You can't prove by me that this one does either. Just sayin'.

I suspect a lot of the value will be in small, one-shot, somewhat generic "mini modules". Why? Because it's a lot easier to get someone to let go of $10-$20 than $50-$75. But if they've already done so and liked what they found, now they have a basis (possibly even a useful one) from which to figure the potential value of the book that's going for $50-$75.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2012, 02:41:02 PM »
You can't prove by me that this one does either. Just sayin'.
Well, I can see that point.

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I suspect a lot of the value will be in small, one-shot, somewhat generic "mini modules". Why?
I think that another reason would be because they are more likely to be able to put out more of them each year and be seen to be more "prolific" by their customers.

Those large $60 books I was talking about would likely not just be adventures, unless they were an adventure compilation or a mega-adventure, but adventure/sourcebook combos. So, their worth would not diminish as much when you finished running the adventure.

And I fully understand that I am in a minority of people any where near my age in the hobby as a single dude with no kids. So, much more availible cash to spend on stuff - even though I am currently looking for my first house.
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Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2012, 04:38:48 PM »
I think that another reason would be because they are more likely to be able to put out more of them each year and be seen to be more "prolific" by their customers.

Those large $60 books I was talking about would likely not just be adventures, unless they were an adventure compilation or a mega-adventure, but adventure/sourcebook combos. So, their worth would not diminish as much when you finished running the adventure.

Exactly. If you have already spent the money on adventures A and B, and you're looking at the book that not only contains the fictional ground adventures A through F are set in (plus another, larger adventure not published anywhere else,) but also the fictional resources, cultures, trade, governments, etc. the author had in mind when he wrote those deliberately generic mini modules, the prospective customer has more than just the value of the book itself. It's partly a larger adventure, but it also adds value to mini modules he already has (by adding cultural/social depth absent from the minis. Intentionally generic, right?), and will add value to others if he buys them. The minis have to be able to stand alone, but they also have to be able to slot into almost anything, too. So the bigger book can be what lots of minis slot into.
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Offline ironmaul

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2012, 06:11:46 PM »
I think that another reason would be because they are more likely to be able to put out more of them each year and be seen to be more "prolific" by their customers.

Those large $60 books I was talking about would likely not just be adventures, unless they were an adventure compilation or a mega-adventure, but adventure/sourcebook combos. So, their worth would not diminish as much when you finished running the adventure.

Exactly. If you have already spent the money on adventures A and B, and you're looking at the book that not only contains the fictional ground adventures A through F are set in (plus another, larger adventure not published anywhere else,) but also the fictional resources, cultures, trade, governments, etc. the author had in mind when he wrote those deliberately generic mini modules, the prospective customer has more than just the value of the book itself. It's partly a larger adventure, but it also adds value to mini modules he already has (by adding cultural/social depth absent from the minis. Intentionally generic, right?), and will add value to others if he buys them. The minis have to be able to stand alone, but they also have to be able to slot into almost anything, too. So the bigger book can be what lots of minis slot into.
I agree. This sounds very much like a solid product template. There also has to be a an invested interest for the consumer otherwise it's not going to cover costs. If you have an already based IP then it makes the job a lot easier to market i.e. if RM had the IP to use Conan much like they once did with LotR. I know Shadow World seems to be the talk around here but not everyone is into it. There needs to be variety in settings that will help bring more folks into using the RM system and thus generate more income to pay more authors, layout designers and artists etc.


Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2012, 07:09:55 PM »
One of the nice things about building from generic mini modules upward is that if they're generic enough, one larger supplement can contain background and depth for mini adventures ABCDEF, another can contain a wholly different background and depth for ADHJNQ, another can cover BEGJLO in yet a different way, etc. Note that this isn't counting the longer and larger adventures that are (at least somewhat) setting dependent, eg if the duke sends you on a quest, there has to be enough of a country nearby to provide the local equivalent of "duke".
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Offline Wolfhound

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2012, 07:20:07 PM »
Not sure if anyone was interested or not, but the ChannelCities.com web site is back up (although it's currently a backup from about three years ago that I made a couple of quick and minor updates to, so the info posted is pretty limited at the moment (maybe 2% of the details that actually exist). 
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Offline Zut

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2012, 09:13:17 PM »
I tried to go to the website, but Google couldn't find it. What is the complete address?
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Offline Wolfhound

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Re: ICE Adventure Modules
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2012, 10:14:04 PM »
www.channelcities.com
which should redirect to: http://www.channelcities.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Wolfhound (aka Aaron Smalley)
World of Aernth/Channel Cities setting: www.ChannelCities.com
City of Archendurn & Dun Cru author (for RM/HARP)
Cur. projects: RMU Creature Law 1 & 2, No Quarter Under the Crown (campaign module for RMU)