Author Topic: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement  (Read 14721 times)

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Offline Thom @ ICE

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The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« on: December 30, 2010, 12:37:01 PM »
My apologies to those of you who may have received the announcement more than once. Unfortunately I did not take into account overlapping membergroups when I issued the announcement. 
Email -    Thom@ironcrown.com

Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 03:39:28 PM »
I have a question regarding the announcement.

Will 13Mann (the German translators) still hold the license to Rolemaster in German?

Thanks!

Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 03:42:25 PM »
Unfortunately I can not comment on that issue at this time - but we are working towards that result.  When more information is available we will definitely announce it.
Email -    Thom@ironcrown.com

Offline ictus

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 05:02:56 PM »
May I offer my support and my hopes for the new and invigorated ICE.

Let 2011 be a great new year for us all........

:wave:



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Offline dutch206

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 05:04:11 PM »
So, RMFRP or RM Classic.....or both?
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline David Johansen

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 06:35:55 AM »
Ouch, right to the cutting edge of the angry can of worms.

It seems to me there was a Guild Companion editiorial a year or so ago where Nicholas said he felt you just had to support both as stuff came in for them at this point because the knot's just too tangled to cut.

Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 06:57:23 AM »
The simple answer is BOTH

Guild Companion Publications - GCP - is the new licensee for HARP, RM, SM & Cyberspace (among others)

All of their titles have been dual-stated in both RM versions, and this process will continue (for example, in revising the shadow world line, rmss stats are being added, and HARP stats will be added in due course). However, please note that I am not an official spokesperson for GCP.


Offline munchy

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 07:30:27 AM »
I would think that it is a question whether you find authors for the different systems. If not, it is probably difficult to keep them running but from what could be seen on the forums there are quite a number of people who work their own stuff for RMFRP/RMSS and RMC, so I hope for a wide range of product although I have to admit that I have become a HARP-guy and only buy the RMC stuff out of nostalgia at the moment.

Hope to see a lot of new material, especially on SW and Cyradon, as well as new rule and source books for HARP. Can't wait until 2011 starts with all those things on the horizon!

Wishing everyone here a "Guten Rutsch" as we say in Germany - it roughly translates into a good slide or good move over into the new year!
Enjoy your New Year's Eves all around!
Get Real, Get Rolemaster!
Be Sharp, Play HARP!

Offline yammahoper

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 08:13:51 AM »
What happened to REVISION 3, then abandon the old lines?

I have never seen any other rpg release a new edition and then continue to sell old edition material.  That makes little sense.

The last several years have apparently shown the owners the current approach is a financial bust.  So why continue on it?

Peace to all, and happy new year.

 :wave:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline Andraax

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 08:57:36 AM »
I have never seen any other rpg release a new edition and then continue to sell old edition material.  That makes little sense.

GURPS

Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 09:06:09 AM »
Any consideration for a new revision is one for another day.

Offline yammahoper

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2010, 09:13:00 AM »
I have never seen any other rpg release a new edition and then continue to sell old edition material.  That makes little sense.

GURPS

GURPS...yuck.

ANother five plus years then of the same ole same ole?  Glorious.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline Andraax

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 09:37:17 AM »
GURPS...yuck.

Lots more GURPS players say "Rolemaster... yuck" than the other way 'round.

 ;D

Offline RandalThor

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2010, 09:55:26 AM »
I play both, though I prefer RM (overall). Both have their good points and their bad points.

Lets hope this new year will be the Year of the Crit Table.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline David Johansen

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2010, 10:37:11 AM »
huh...I wonder if the people who like GURPS are the people who like RMSS?  That would be very interesting from a demographic perspective.

I would say GURPS has never made me shout I love this game quite like RMSS does but I really do like a lot of things about GURPS.

That said, as I've said before, the only way I'm interested in a new editon of RM is if they pay me to write it :D

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2010, 12:07:34 PM »
Just my speculations... I don't work for any of these guys, I'm a freelancer (I've had people mistake me for an official ICE employee before).

A new version would take, in my opinion, at least a couple years to get near completion.  To give you guys all an idea, when we did the Channeling Companion the time frame that I sent in the proposal to hitting the shelves was right at about one year... and that was relatively quick for a full fledged ICE book.  Even once new goals and desired changes are agreed upon it still takes quite some time to get the books put together and to the 'shelf'.  However, it's my opinion if that if RM wants to remain a viable system a new version is what's required even if it is more along the lines of light modification, fine tuning and re-organization.

The current version, supported or not up to this point, is RMFRP.  But RM2 (RMC essentially) is still quite popular with the vocal fan base.  It's difficult to know the real numbers without at least having a look at the sales of all the various publications and even then it would be hard to draw a conclusion due to the fact that it's been quite some time since a RMFRP publication was put out (RMQ's don't count).  I won't get into what I think the reasons are that RMFRP stopped getting worked on, the fact that this is happening is a big enough indicator that whatever they were it wasn't good enough.  Although I will say with "new management" you might see some authors become more willing to consider new projects, so there's some hope there.  The downside is things will move slowly since, essentially, you're going to have most the people controlling the development of the system doing it as their secondary 'job'.  Although, not to spit on anyone's grave, considering the lack of progress on RMFRP in the past years it might actually see an increase in efforts.

So, as someone else pointed out, for the near future I think things will likely remain largely as-is.  RMFRP is still the 'current' version, RMC projects will likely still be worked on short term, but a new version is almost surely the long term goal.  In my opinion if the system wants to stay alive it HAS to be the long term goal.  HARP, while it has seen some slowing appears to be in fairly good shape for the most part and, if anything is done to it I think it should become the gateway game to RM (much as MERP used to be) depending on how any potential changes to RM go.  The spell learning mechanic is the one major difference between the two systems and could pose a problem attempting to make them sister systems.

In my opinion the biggest serious issue faced will be marketing.  When you have a print on demand product that basically means you don't have a product on the shelf, which is a big problem.  A large percentage of the game store owners do not even realize there was a second incarnation of ICE, and now there may not even be books printed for them to order to put on their shelves if/when they discover there's a third incarnation of ICE.  If anyone expects ICE products to become anywhere near as popular as they used to be there needs to be an ad campaign and there needs to be a convention presence of some sort.  Fans can handle word of mouth, and in my opinion that is the only advertising that the game systems have seen for a long time.  Fans may also be able to handle the convention presence if an effort is made to officially organize it - this is something of a soap box of mine with Mjolnir.  I don't think they ever really took marketing seriously.  They had people that could have gone so far as establishing and manning a booth in the merchant rooms of some of the conventions, let alone run ICE based game events at those conventions, if they'd just purchased the space (yes, I know, that takes $$$) and provided some product.  ICE staff themselves should have been able to attend two of the the biggest cons however as it's about a 450mile trip to either GenCon or Origins.  I don't know how many times I've said this to various ICE staff over the years: If you want people to know you're around, GenCon is the place to be.  My opinion is that saying you don't 'have the money' to go to GenCon is saying that you don't have the money to survive as a commercially viable game system.  If you expect to gain new customers you must advertise.  Scrape and scratch up every friggin last dime you can to get there at least just once.  Tell the world you exist again.  Ask fans that are going to be there anyhow volunteer to help setup, man the booth, hell ask for donations is you have to.  Just GO TO GENCON.
- Cory Magel

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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 12:53:55 PM »
Posted this in another thread, but thought it might be a good idea to cross-post it here too.

Something worth mentioning also for everyone... no one has said that Mjolnir is going out of business, declaring bankruptcy, or anything along those lines.  They simply no longer hold the licenses for the table top games.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 02:25:26 PM »
I can tell you definitively that the next few years for the product lines will be very different from how things have been in the past. Look to the Shadow World Player Guide for how different our approach can be.

There will be a series of announcements as to what is happening as things that have been planned can now be put into motion and things that we have discussed can now be properly planned. You'll see news on the Guild Companion editorial and in postings to the website home page and this forum.

Happy New Year to all of you

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline dutch206

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2011, 03:20:18 PM »
@Corey:  Channeling Companion was my favorite book for RMFRP.  Balanced, well thought-out, and crunchy. :D
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: The Crown is Dead, Long Live the Crown Announcement
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2011, 03:42:02 PM »
@Corey:  Channeling Companion was my favorite book for RMFRP.  Balanced, well thought-out, and crunchy. :D

Thanks! :)  Just gotta be careful on the balance of making custom Semi-Priests.  Kinda wish I'd covered that with a little more sterner warning in the book.
Maybe if a revision or republish is done.  I'd be nice to get the few mistakes removed too.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

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