Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: terefang on November 21, 2015, 05:54:26 AM
-
Hi!
since i am working on a fractal renderer (such as this below),
i would like to ask if this is of any interrest to someone,
if shadow worlds dems were available,
and which programs/editors should be targeted.
i imagine this could grow to be like the middle-earth dem project ... http://www.me-dem.org/ (http://www.me-dem.org/)
-
I was actually thinking of something like this last night coincidently. I did think it was a little too grand for my skills though. I can't see your attachment yet because I think a mod has to authorise it first.
I use Vue Complete & World Machine for my location shots (although World Machine is a recent addition and isn't featured in any of the images below) and Poser for the people.
From smaller locations:
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0258-DeadMarsh-3-small.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0258-Road-2-3-small.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0246-Jungle-1-cam5-1000x563.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0195-Desert-32-1-1000x333.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0189-mountain-40-20-1000x456.jpg)
To larger vistas:
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/Landscape-1-1-small.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0179-zorwastes-12-1-1000x457.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0159-Steppe-of-Tai-emer-20-10-landscape-1000x573.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0154-RockTowers-20-1-1000x377.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0160-Vortania-6-20-1000x456.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0151-Mountain-Climbing-20-comp-1000x667.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0163-Desert-30-comp-1000x633.jpg)
...so yes, DEMs would be useful. :)
-
I made this Emer map in Photoshop but DEMs had crossed my mind for an updated Jaiman map.
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/Emer-1-hires-1000x772.jpg)
Detail:
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/Emer-1-hires-detail-1000x701.jpg)
-
Your attached map is available to view now and I can see you're talking of doing a global map as opposed to doing smaller areas. Are you able to control the features of the continents or are you limited to what the fractal dictates?
-
Your attached map is available to view now and I can see you're talking of doing a global map as opposed to doing smaller areas. Are you able to control the features of the continents or are you limited to what the fractal dictates?
actually what you see on the screenshot is the web-view app (done in leafletjs),
with some java on the web-server taking DEM and ColorRamp from the fractal code.
so basically with the proper reader, any DEM data could be formatted like this.
one could also produce "prerendered" tiles for a static online viewer (like most mapviewer do),
all that is needed is the tile graphics copped into the right size (256x256) and zoom level.
to produce the actual DEM from "artwork" maps is a little bit more serious work.
i have previously done work for a "Neverwinter-Nights 2" server digitizing the FR Moonsea into playable maps,
using a combination of DEM and fractal algorithms (brownian motion and perlin noise).
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pg_feb2003_moonsea.jpg)
maybe we should start with the emer map of yours to produce a sample DEM and see where this leads us?
T.
-
my algorithms have digitized your detail picture into this (W=water, c=coast/river, _=land):
____________________________________________ccWc_____________cWWWWWWWWWWWWc________ccWWWWcccccWc_________________________cccW
_____________________________________________ccc____________ccccWWWWWWWWWWcccc_______ccWWWWWWWWc___________________________cW
____________________________________________cccc____________cc_ccWWWWWWWWWWWWccc______cccWWWWWWc_________________________cccW
___________________________________________ccc__________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWccWcc______cWWWWWWc________________________ccccW
________________________________________c_cccc__________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc_____cWWWWWWcc__________________________cc
________________________________________cccc___________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc___ccWWWWWWWWc___________________________c
________________________________________cc______________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWccccWWWWWWWWWWc___________________________
________________________________________ccc______________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWccWWWWWWWWWWcc___________________________
_________________________________________cc_______________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc____________________________
_________________________________________cc______________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc___________________________
_________________________________________cc______________________ccccccWcWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc__________________________
________________________________________c_c___________________________ccccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWccc________________________
________________________________________ccc______________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcccccc_____________________
________________________________________ccc_______________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc_____________________
________________________________________cc_______________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc______________________
_______________________________________ccc_______________________________ccWWWWWWWcccccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc_____________________
_______________________________________cc________________________________cWWWWWWWc____ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc____________________
________________________________________c_________________________________cWWWWWWc_____ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc___________________
_____________________________________cccc_________________________________cWWWWWcc______cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc____________________
_____________________________________c_cc________________________________cccccWccc______cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc____________________
_____________________________________c__c____________________________________cccccc_____cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc___________________
____________________________________cc__c________________________________________cWc___cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWccc_________________
___________________________________cc___cc_______________________________________cWc_cccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWc_________________
___________________________________c_____cccc___________________________________cWWWccWWWcWWWWWWccccccWWWWWcc__cc____________
___________________________________cc______c____________________________________ccWWWWccc_ccWWWWc_____ccccWWccccc____________
___________________________________c_______ccc___________________________________cWWWWc____cWWWWc________ccWWWWcc____________
___________________________________c________cc___________________________________ccWWWc___ccWWWWccc_______cWWWWc__c__________
cc____________________________ccc_cc________cc_____________________________________ccWccccccWWWWWWc_______ccWWWccccc_________
ccccc_______________________ccccccc_________c_______________________________________ccccccccWWWWWWWcc_____cWWWWWWWWcc________
_cc_cc____________________ccc_______________cc_____________________________________________cWWWWWWWWc____cWWWWWWWWWWWccc_____
_____cc___________________cc________________cc_____________________________________________ccWWWWWWWccc__cWWWWWWWWWWWccc_____
______cc__________________cc________________cc_____________________________________________ccWWWWWWcccccccWWWWWWWWWWWc_______
______ccc_________________c_________________cc______________________________________________cWWccccc__cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWcc______
______cccccc_____________cc_________________cccccc___________________________________________ccc_cc___ccccccccWWWWWWWcc______
_________ccc____________cc_______________________c___________________________________________c___cc____ccc___ccWWWcccWWc_____
_________cccc__________cc________________________ccc__________________________________________________________cWcc_ccWWcc____
____________cc_______ccc_________________________ccc_________________________________________________________cWWcc__ccWWc____
_____________c__cc__ccc___________________________cc__________________________________________________________ccc_____ccc____
_____________ccccccccc__________________________ccc__________________________________________________________________________
_________________cc_cc__________________________c____________________________________________________________________________
___________________cc__________________________cc____________________________________________________________________________
____________cccc_ccc__________________________cc_____________________________________________________________________________
___________ccc_ccc___________________________cc______________________________________________________________________________
___________c_________________________________cc__cccc________________________________________________________________________
_________cc______________________________________c__cc_______________________________________________________________________
_______cccc_________________________________________cc_______________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________cc______________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________cc_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________ccc_____________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________c_cc_____________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________ccc____________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________c____________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________cc_______________________________________________________ccccccc____cc
_______cc______________________________________________cc_______________________________________________________cWWWWWccccccW
_______c________________________________________________c_______________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______cc______________________________________________cc_______________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWW
______ccc______________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWW
ccccc_c________________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWW
c___ccc________________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWW
____cc__________________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWW
___________________________________________________________________________________________________cc__________cWWWWWWWWWWWWW
__________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWc_________ccWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWcc_____c__ccWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWc_ccccccccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________________________________________________________________________________c_ccWWWcccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________________________________________________________________________________cccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
____________________________________________________________________________________________cccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
____________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
__________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
__________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_________________________________________________________________________________________________cWWccccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
_______________________cccc______________________________________________________________________cWcc__cccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
______________________c___cc_____________________________________________________________________cWc_____cccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
___________________________c_____________________________________________________________________cWc_______cWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
whats much harder is to derive the elevation from the image ...
-
Oooh, I don't think your last message came out correctly. : :o
I wasn't suggesting using my images to crate the DEMs - I was just showing you what I would use DEMs for.
I will have to look at some of the books to see if any of the continent maps have contour lines. I know there are some of the smaller regional maps would have some though. A problem with the previous maps was the fact that they made these huge mountain ranges look like they were one large ridge instead of showing the clusters that would make them up - this is a huge continent larger than the US I believe and you can see how their mountain ranges are made up of multiple mountains wide an dI tried to get that same look to Emer. The old maps did look awesome though, they were well rendered and they were hand painted too! :)
-
Oooh, I don't think your last message came out correctly. : :o
I wasn't suggesting using my images to crate the DEMs - I was just showing you what I would use DEMs for.
it was only to show some visualization of parts of the technology (text based).
T.
-
hmm ... but i could use the help of an graphic artist.
one way to create a dem base is to convert rgb values based on rules.
lets say: someone draws a map (256x256) with the following properties:
* any predominately blue to be converted to water dem (R<B && G<B)
* any predominately green to be converted to grass/hill dem (R<G && B<G)
* any predominately red to be converted to mountain dem (G<R && B<R)
* any predominately yellow to be converted to river dem (R==G && G>B)
based on these hints i could fractally upscale this to a 4081x4081 dem.
if i had the exact geographic coordinates of the 256px tile,
the resulting upscale dems could be almost seamless.
T.
-
maybe i start with something simple, like the map of "vog mur" ?
-
That sounds good - do you have a copy of that map or would you like me to colour the map first?
-
That sounds good - do you have a copy of that map or would you like me to colour the map first?
i think that i have a (almost-hires) pdf version,
which TKA had done in Freehand from the old days of his freebies.
-
progress report #1
color demd the map:
-
progress report #2:
convert to heightmap
-
progress report #3
imported into wilbur
-
progress report #4 (and final)
oversampling with additional blur and multi-fractal noise gives this
(exported from wilbur)
-
...eagerly awaits the approval of the attachment...
-
Approved. ;D
MDC
-
Drool......
I seriously admire these undertakings and skills involved. It would be great to have maps like these available for the existing Shadow World modules. Maybe as paid downloads at the onebookshelf sites?
This is the best stuff to freely create hand outs. Players looove hand outs.
-
I was hoping that the end result would be smoother and a lot less stepped.
Can the noise texture be layered with another larger texture to break up the even distribution?
I went to look in my archives for the Terry's Vog Mur map and I commend you on the tracing - that map was incredibly low-res. :o
-
Can the noise texture be layered with another larger texture to break up the even distribution?
if you want to play with it in Wilbur http://www.fracterra.com/wilbur.html (http://www.fracterra.com/wilbur.html) or another terrein tool, i can send you the heightmap.
i would recommend this tutorial http://www.worldofgotha.com/PF_TUTORIAL/israh3.html (http://www.worldofgotha.com/PF_TUTORIAL/israh3.html)
T.
-
This is an interesting project. We will certainly need to replace the crude area maps for the Emer I revision (and probably Emer II as well. They aren't as ugly, but it would be nice to be more consistent).
-
These tutorial images for WILBUR look perfect for continent maps with great mountain regions that don't necessarily need to be as accurate as the closeup version of Vog Mur.
Do you have any of the original Kulthea maps? it would be good to try out on one of those baring in mind that the mountain ranges there are graphics representations of vast mountain ranges and are not just 1 peak wide. :P
(That's not to say that you should be inaccurate, just that you don't need to trace the contour lines on the Best wishes counterparts of them)
-
And obviously Craig is right; if we want to do more 'accurate' maps, a mountain range is going to be more than 1 peak wide. Just watch the beginning of 'The Two Towers' and see a range in New Zealand (I mean, the Misty Mountains with Moria beneath..)
-
(That's not to say that you should be inaccurate, just that you don't need to trace the contour lines on the Best wishes counterparts of them)
What did that mean!??!
Ahhh, I have an app that can auto complete words or phrases to save typing and I've set "bw" to "Best Wishes" when I meant "Black & White" so it should have been "...you don't need to trace the contour lines on the black and white counterparts of [the colour maps]".
Sorry for any confusion. I shall adjust my settings ...and perhaps proof read as well. ;)
-
you want probably that:
http://www.world-machine.com/ (http://www.world-machine.com/)
-
i have played around with the western hemisphere
"ocean dem" is from oversampling, land is still flat.
-
Waiting patiently for the attachment to be approved...
;)
-
Do you have any way to upload the file so we can avoid the time it takes to be approved?
The dos are all knowing but not always all present. :smash:
-
hope that works
(https://kulthea.reibenschuh.info/shadow.world.map.wb.M.small.png)
-
nope. :(
Do you have Dropbox by any chance? If you add the image to the Dropbox folder and then right click the file and one of the options should be something like 'Copy URL to Clipboard' and then you can use that link in your post. (I didn't mean to sound patronising by the way, I just wanted to try different options).
-
sorry no dropbox
https://kulthea.reibenschuh.info/shadow.world.map.wb.M.small.png (https://kulthea.reibenschuh.info/shadow.world.map.wb.M.small.png)
-
Excellent - that one worked. At what stage are we at this point?
-
Excellent - that one worked. At what stage are we at this point?
creating the image involved the following steps:
- extracting the sw-map (pdf-image)
- painting background and seams in blue (gimp)
- extracting a cutout map (scripted java/groovy)
- oversampling tile-size=TxT, DEM-Scale=T*10 and T=(1024,512,256,128,64,32,16,8,4,2,1) (scripted java/groovy)
- combining oversamples @ size (H*2)x(W*2) (scripted java/groovy)
- exporting as VTP-Binary-Terrain (float32) (scripted java/groovy)
- imported and colorramped (Wilbur)
- exported as terrain texture PNG (Wilbur)
i am currently researching:
- how to properly colorramp (with QGIS)
- how to properly georeference (with QGIS)
- how to oversample artistic height-paintings
- how to combine the oversamples with fractal detail algorithms
do we agree that DEM (x/y) resolution should be <1km ? (at least what i suspect from previous postings)
for horizontal resolution i am targetting around 30 meters
for the fractal detail functions i identified the following major terrain types:
- Swamp
- Mountains
- Jungle
- Hills
- Grassland/Plains
- Forest
- Desert
- Broken Land
T