Author Topic: Revised Profession: Mystic  (Read 652 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2021, 07:48:24 PM »
@markc - I should have clarified... I am really just trying to tweak the original core professions with a handful of others from the companions that are already touched on by RMU (Nightblade=>Magent, Paladin, etc.) I recognize that the further into the Companions we go, the more unbalanced those professions become (Chaos Lord, I'm looking at you...).

I understand what you're saying regarding the Dir Spells-Weapon danger. In my mind, the tradeoff is what I listed above... namely that every attack requires PPs and is useless in ordinary melee. Only play-testing will tell if it's completely broken, in need of tweaking, or ready for primetime. I just wanted to theorycraft a way of looking at the Mystic, which I think has suffered from a lack of focus over the years.

@Hurin - Side note, tried to move the parry/dodge spells to Evasive Movement list, which opened up some slots on the Mystic Blade list. I filled them with several with your "Gather Element" spell. Also have a draft of the Elemental Alteration list. Here is the latest...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbsIaxoI6u0cEGFW581xJOBszFmvJmTH/view?usp=sharing
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,067
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2021, 10:37:24 PM »
Some of those old professions may be unbalanced but that doesn't mean the concept of the profession is necessarily bad. Only that the spell lists may need more work.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,296
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2021, 08:31:44 AM »

@Hurin - Side note, tried to move the parry/dodge spells to Evasive Movement list, which opened up some slots on the Mystic Blade list. I filled them with several with your "Gather Element" spell. Also have a draft of the Elemental Alteration list. Here is the latest...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbsIaxoI6u0cEGFW581xJOBszFmvJmTH/view?usp=sharing

Looks good to me. I like that you moved my suggested spell up to a higher level. The Mystic can still cast a bolt him/herself, then channel it into a weapon, and attack with it. So that is pretty cool.

'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,296
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2021, 08:33:40 AM »
Some of those old professions may be unbalanced but that doesn't mean the concept of the profession is necessarily bad. Only that the spell lists may need more work.

Yes... exactly! This is the way.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2021, 01:50:51 PM »
Quote
Some of those old professions may be unbalanced but that doesn't mean the concept of the profession is necessarily bad. Only that the spell lists may need more work.
Lol, backing Hurin's agreement, I concur. Some of the concepts on them are top notch and deserve conversion down the line (or at least by humble homebrewers).

@Hurin - Glad you approve. It works out well that the first Elemental Arc spell is 7th level as well on the Elemental Alteration list. Also, I figured the Attune spell would help with my reservations about the list having too much of a good thing on it. Figured making the Return spell as well would put another control on the Mystic Blade list from being too powerful.

Now I just have to come up with some creative combinations for the Movement list. Excited to create that "Trade places" effect.
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline Jengada

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 251
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2021, 12:22:30 AM »
I like the direction you took, in general. I'm beginning to think no profession has been reimagined as much as the mystic, which is interesting. Some professions have been relegated to NPC status as not really playable, other professions always seemed fine. But mystic, I think, captures the imagination and many people see the general idea as playable, and worth trying to salvage.
I look forward to seeing (and borrowing :) ) the remaining spell lists for your mystic.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2021, 11:49:30 AM »
@Jengada - Agree completely about the NPC-leaning professions. Not saying it's a bad thing, but when players see a profession, they want to know that it's a viable playing option. Some of the old professions lend themselves heavily to NPCs or very patient and unique PC's (Seer and Alchemist come to mind). The issue I'm dealing with now is the fact the Mystic is a little close to the Magent/Nightblade for my taste, but I'm going to just push through at this point and see how it looks on the far end.

Almost done the Mystic Movement list... we'll see if I succeeded.
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline Jengada

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 251
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2021, 11:55:50 AM »
I don't know whether you saw it, or whether it'll be any use or inspiration to you, but I posted on the Rolemaster Blog a short while back about a school of mystics in my campaign (https://www.rolemasterblog.com/elven-mysticism/) I have another school, one I made decades ago, with its own cultural custom lists - both take a very nonmagent direction. I now have a player who's run one of the elven mystics for almost 4 months, and so far the class has proven useful but not overpowered. The player has proven to be one of those who looks at the spells and sees really innovative ways to use them.

@Jengada - Agree completely about the NPC-leaning professions. Not saying it's a bad thing, but when players see a profession, they want to know that it's a viable playing option. Some of the old professions lend themselves heavily to NPCs or very patient and unique PC's (Seer and Alchemist come to mind). The issue I'm dealing with now is the fact the Mystic is a little close to the Magent/Nightblade for my taste, but I'm going to just push through at this point and see how it looks on the far end.

Almost done the Mystic Movement list... we'll see if I succeeded.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2021, 10:53:45 PM »
Alrighty... Mystical Movements is in the link as a rough draft. I'm short a few spells but the overall idea has taken shape, so if you're not tired of this thread yet, give me some suggestions. I was really impressed by Hurin's idea of a teleport that switches places, and the idea of a Mystic bending reality is something I think fits the concept.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbsIaxoI6u0cEGFW581xJOBszFmvJmTH/view?usp=sharing

I'm not sure if I'm too willy-nilly with the ideas or power levels, but you all are always great at finding balance points. If the mechanics are being beaten to death in this list, let me know but I really like the flavor of "warping" being a thing, and tried to create some synergy with the Mystic Blade list with the Cut Space spells.
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,296
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2021, 11:06:23 PM »
I think you haven't yet updated the file to include the Mystical Movement list. There are only a few Parry spells on the list in the file you linked to.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2021, 11:15:23 PM »
My bad! Updated.
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,296
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2021, 11:32:43 PM »
Yes, it's been updated now.

Overall, I think it is a pretty cool list.

In regards to the Mystic Rope spells, I think you don't want their Duration to be 2 AP. AP generally means action points, but I think you mean Action Phases. Action points are a measure of individual activity (and you can actually spend more than 1 point/phase in certain circumstances like being hasted or Adrenal Speed-ed), whereas phases are more hard-coded and the same for everyone. Also, I'm not sure if there are any other spells that have durations expressed as action phases. I'm not saying it won't work -- it might be fine; I'd just hesitate to do something so unusual without thinking of all the ramifications (i.e. if you really meant action points, who is spending them?). Could you just make the duration '1 round' or instant (--) to avoid any potential issues with that? Or is there a reason you want it at 2 phases? (I also note Mystic Rope III and V increase the duration to 3 'AP')
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Jengada

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 251
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2021, 01:04:26 AM »
Looking at Mystical Movement, there are some cool ideas. At first I was wondering about the place-swap (Tether+Mystic Rope) being too powerful, but it looks relatively reasonable - it's not a teleport swap, it's got some restrictions on use. I would put something in about barriers - the battlement example sounds almost like you could drag someone across a deep pit or pool with this, which would make it much more powerful. And if the parties pass within 5', can they make a melee attack if their weapon reaches? Do you need to specify a rate of movement for the swap, or is it a full round slide?
The other spell that caught my eye was Cut Space. The description actually says it cuts space-time, not just space. I would take "-time" off here, but that leaves you with an opportunity to make a "Cut Time" spell - maybe at the 8th level slot? That could make a small rend in time, but a fixed location, that would allow the caster to push an object forward or backward (oh noooo! Time paradoxes!) some relatively brief time interval, maybe max at 1 round/level.
Imagine using that to put something temporarily out of an enemy's reach, or to make a hand-off but have an alibi for being elsewhere at the time.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2021, 03:17:59 PM »
Whew... This has been a process. Ok, semi-finalized version of the revised Mystic.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbsIaxoI6u0cEGFW581xJOBszFmvJmTH/view?usp=sharing

@Hurin - You were right about the AP. I should have said Action Phases. I increased it to 3 phases for the higher spells simply because of the distance. I was trying to keep it from being an instantaneous travel spell and figured the Action Phases would simulate the travel time. If you think 1 round simplifies it, I can try that out.

@Jengada - Ha, I was too caught up in the physics lingo. Changed the language. I also adjusted the wording on the Mystic Rope spells so the distance is increased. In theory, yes, an attack could happen, although I'd apply penalties in such a case.

Appreciate the advice as always. Credit to the crew of Rolemasterblog for the inspiration and ideas behind revamping the core concepts.
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,296
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2021, 04:12:22 PM »
Whew... This has been a process. Ok, semi-finalized version of the revised Mystic.


Yes, one thing I've learned since I started writing spell lists is that they take a long time. Between trying to think of cool ideas, comparing your spells to others on other lists, balancing, and making sure you have all the appropriate durations, spell types, etc., it is a lot of work.

My hat goes off to RDanHenry (I think he wrote the RMU spell law? Pretty sure he also wrote all the spells in Treasure Law) for a Herculean task!

Quote
@Hurin - You were right about the AP. I should have said Action Phases. I increased it to 3 phases for the higher spells simply because of the distance. I was trying to keep it from being an instantaneous travel spell and figured the Action Phases would simulate the travel time. If you think 1 round simplifies it, I can try that out.


Some things to keep in mind: duration does not refer to the time to cast the spell; that is handled by the action point rules. Duration is essentially how long it lasts after you cast it. Remember too that actions can work a little differently in the Simple Round (a character takes all his/her/its actions at once before other characters act in turn) as opposed to in the Phased Round (characters take only one phase worth of actions at a time).

So, if you cast a Mystic Rope with a duration of 2 AP after one of the targets has acted for the turn, you are essentially saying that the target will be moving for the next two action phases of the following turn. I'm not sure if you intend this movement to prevent action (I am assuming you don't, because then it would be a still more powerful spell -- not only moving the target, but stopping its action). So if you do retain the 2 or 3 action phase duration, you need to specify what action the target(s) can take while being moved. If you don't retain the action phase duration, then you can just set the duration as '--' (instant).
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Eladan

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Revised Profession: Mystic
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2021, 05:09:15 PM »
Already fixing that, thanks. I realized I hadn’t done the revision of the mechanics you mentioned. The English teacher in me is disappointed...
"And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest."