Author Topic: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf  (Read 6769 times)

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Offline Thot

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Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« on: September 13, 2013, 11:41:33 PM »
Some species age, others don't. It stands to reason that those who don't may have been transformed by magic - which could be a way how the "immortal" species started to exist as such.

Is there any way to achieve this within the existing RM magic system?

Offline markc

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 07:36:02 AM »
Thot,
 Welcome to the ICE Forums.


 As to your question I think becoming a Lich would do the trick. As per magic I would look at the Spell Lists in the RMSS Essence Companion as one of the lists (I do not remember which one right now) effectively slows down and then halts your aging. 
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Offline munchy

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 09:56:11 AM »
I would argue that with the highest level Changeling spells from RMCIII it might be possible to at least achieve longevity.
There is also a level 50 Seer spell from RMCIV oder RMCV, I think, that allows you to permanently take over the body of another being. We always wondered in that circumstance what exactly makes the elvish body immortal and usually agreed on it being the combination of the elf's soul in his body that does it. Thus you cannot become immortal by simply taking over an elf's body ... in our version of the world, that is.
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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 11:44:00 AM »
Thot,
 Welcome to the ICE Forums.

Thanks. ^^

Quote
As to your question I think becoming a Lich would do the trick.

Well, but then you are also a Lich, which I would regard as a serious side effect I would rather want to avoid...  ;D

Quote
As per magic I would look at the Spell Lists in the RMSS Essence Companion as one of the lists (I do not remember which one right now) effectively slows down and then halts your aging. 
MDC

That's excellent to know! Is there also any way to reverse the aging process in those or other spell lists?

Offline RandalThor

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2013, 12:52:55 PM »
The only thing in the Essence Companion I have noted on affecting a beings age is the 50th level spell, Philosopher's Elixir on the Brewing Lore spell list. It cuts the imbibers age down to one-third and slows their aging thereafter to one-tenth. Example: a 45 year old guy would be turned into a 15-year old and then it would take 10 years for his body to age to 16. (That spell is the basis for a character of mine.)

I have not run across one that makes you immortal. But I think that goes the same way as many types of magic in RPGs where you have an adventure with all these permanent magical effects, but nothing available to the PCs to enable them to create such effects. Sure other games (notably D&D) are worse for this than Rolemaster, but it is prevalent thru out the industry.

As for why elves are immortal, it is likely that they did it to themselves way back in their history, or it was done to them by their gods, or something like that. But, if you would like a quasi-realistic reason for immortality, read the book Fragment by Warren Fahy: http://www.amazon.com/Fragment-Novel-Warren-Fahy/dp/0553592459/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379180968&sr=1-1&keywords=fragment+by+warren+fahy
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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2013, 01:30:28 PM »
Hm, so I might have to make up a new spell list for this?

Well, then I am open for suggestions about the proper realm for this kind of stuff... essence, channeling, mentalism, or arcane even?

If we assume inducing a permanent "eternal youth" state on a given subject is a 50th level spell, what kind of lesser spells would you put on the spell list?

Offline markc

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2013, 01:53:17 PM »
  I was thinking of the Sustain Body spell list in which you slow your aging by your level, so a 20th level caster would age 8/10th of a day.


 I guess I was also thinking of the Brewing Lore spell as RandalThor talked about above as I thought there was a more powerful version of the spell above on the Sustain Body spell list.


 As per a list to make you immortal I do not see a problem with it and would like to see the list.


 As a side note, are there spells that deal with this type of thing in RoCoI in the spells beyond 50th rank section?


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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 03:14:27 PM »
Ah, I found that Youth spell in RMCI. Thanks.

But I also made up a complete spell list. Of course, I have no idea if the spells are balanced well enough or not, and still don't know what the approriate realm could be. I am open to suggestions.

Age Mastery

1 Know Age - Tells the caster the exact biological age of the subject.
(An elf or member of another immortal species will register as 25 years.)

2 Ease Ailment I -  temporarily removes one age-induced ailment from the
subject for 1 day. Such ailments include pain in the back, loss of fertility, diminished sight,
failure to hold one's urine, even alzheimer's disease, if and only if their
cause is age. This spell, however, does not affect your appeareance in any way.

3 Beauty of Youth I - temporarily lets your appearance return to its former beauty,
removing up to 1 year per level from your appearant age. This spell does not affect
any age-related health effects, it merely adjusts the subject's visible age.

4 Tell Remaining Years- Tells the caster the subjects's remaining years, excluding
any "external factors" like violence or plagues.

5 Beauty of Youth II - as Beauty of outh I, but changes your visible age by up to 3 years per level.

6 Ease Ailment III - as Ease Ailment I, but the product of the number of
ailments and the number of days the ease lasts is 3.

7 Wisdom of the Years - Temporarily improves the subject's self dicipline bonus by +1 per level.

8 Mass Ease Ailments I - as "Ease Ailment I", but affects a number of targets equal to the caster's level.

9 Ease Ailment V - as Ease Ailment I, but the product of the number of
ailments and the number of days the ease lasts is 5.

10 Temporary Youth - temporarily reduces the subject's biological age by 1 year per level. (Duration: 1 Day).
This spell does not remove any skills, injuries, lost limbs etc.

11 Respect for the Elders - temporarily increases the subject's self discipline, charisma, and empathy bonuses by +1 per level.

12 Beauty of Youth V - as Beauty of youth I, but changes your visible age by up to 5 years per level.

13 Mass Ease Ailments 3 - as "Ease Ailment 3", but affects a number of targets equal to the caster's
level, with the factor of 3 applying to each subject individually.

14 Ease Ailments X -  as Ease Ailment I, but the product of the number of
ailments and the number of days the ease lasts is 10.

15 Lesser Halt Aging - Halt aging of the subject for 1 year.

20 Greater Ease Ailments - as "Ease Ailment I", but cures all age-induced ailments of the subject permanently.
However, the subject will quickly aquire them again from natural causes if its biological age isn't changed.

25 Greater Halt Aging - Halt aging of the subject for 10 years.

30 Youth (as the Level 50 spell from RMCI)

50 Permanent Halt Aging - Permanent, hereditary halting of subject's aging (if inherited, aging stops at biological
 age 25 - this only works if both parents are immortal by this way or another)

Offline markc

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2013, 09:07:33 PM »
 I think it should be Arcane as it deals with a lot of various factors and has some serious stat bonus spells. I do not remember if a lot of RM2 spells pump stats as much as this list does but it seems to be very powerful to me. Also IMHO the Ease Ailments spells should have a variable duration based on the level of the caster like other spells. Another spell might be the ability to remove hostile aging spells and effects. The spell would not work on aging effects that the PC agreed to just hostile spells, effects, rituals, etc.


Does that help?
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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2013, 11:16:16 PM »
Yes, it does, thanks! I'll have to think it over. :)

Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 12:38:51 AM »
Age Mastery
- Arcane Spell List -


1 Know Age - Tells the caster the exact biological age of the subject.
(An elf or member of another immortal species will register as 25 years.)

2 Ease Ailment I -  temporarily removes one age-induced ailment from the
subject for 1 hour per level. Such ailments include pain in the back, loss
of fertility, diminished sight, failure to hold one's urine, even alzheimer's
disease, if and only if their cause is age. This spell, however, does not
affect your appeareance in any way.

3 Beauty of Youth I - temporarily lets your appearance return to its former beauty,
removing up to 1 year per level from your apparent age. This spell does not affect
any age-related health effects, it merely adjusts the subject's visible age.
Duration: 1 hour per level.

4 Tell Remaining Years- Tells the caster the subjects's remaining years, excluding
any "external factors" like violence or plagues. Casting this spell on immortal beings
such as elves (or people under the effect of any Halt Aging spell) will result in an
"infinite" lifespan indication.

5 Beauty of Youth II - as Beauty of outh I, but changes your visible age by up to 3 years per level.

6 Ease Ailment III - as Ease Ailment I, but affects up to three ailments.

7 Relieve Magical Aging - temporarily removes all magic-induced aging effects from the subject.
Natural aging is unaffected. Dration: 1 hour per level.

8 Mass Ease Ailments I - as "Ease Ailment I", but affects a number of targets equal to the caster's level.

9 Ease Ailment V - as Ease Ailment I, but affects up to 5 ailments.

10 Temporary Youth - temporarily reduces the subject's biological age by 1 year per level. (Duration: 1 Day).
This spell does not remove any skills, injuries, lost limbs etc.

11 Remove Magical Aging -  As Relieve Magical Aging, but removes the effects permanently.

12 Beauty of Youth V - as Beauty of youth I, but changes your visible age by up to 5 years per level.

13 Mass Ease Ailments 3 - as "Ease Ailment 3", but affects a number of targets equal to the caster's
level.

14 Ease Ailments X -  as Ease Ailment I, but the number of ailments is up to 10.

15 Lesser Halt Aging - Halt aging of the subject for 1 month per level of the caster.

20 Remove Ailments - as "Ease Ailment I", but cures all age-induced ailments of the subject permanently.
However, the subject will quickly aquire them again from natural causes if its biological age isn't changed.

25 Greater Halt Aging - Halt aging of the subject for 1 year per level of the caster.

30
Youth (as the Level 50 spell from RMCI)

50 Permanent Halt Aging - Permanent, hereditary halting of subject's aging (if inherited, aging stops at biological
 age 25 - this only works if both parents are immortal by this way or another).

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 12:49:35 AM »
Just to toss it out there... don't know if it'll help with ideas at all...

In my 'world' elves are considered immortal (in terms of lifespan) by all but themselves and some of the more powerful entities, however this is due to the shorter life spans of the other races.

I have it so that elves live a few thousand years, more if they really want to, so the vast majority of the other races populations simply believe they live forever.  'Normal' people will never see an elf die of natural causes and even very influential beings in the world will rarely be aware of, let alone see, it happening.

A human kingdom could go through a couple hundred kings before an elven king passes on from age and, typically, they will subtly shift power from one to another without the knowledge of the human kings.  They live so long and interact DIRECTLY with the human kings so rarely that the human kings usually don't even realize they are dealing with a different elven king.
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Offline markc

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 07:03:40 AM »
 Can I ask if there is a reason behind the creation of such a list?
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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 07:36:19 AM »
Of course there is.  ;D

Imagine the character concept of a Magician mortal man, a Common Man, even, who just is dissatisfied with his comparatively short lifespan. In search for ancient knowledge to prolongue his life, he will go to great troubles, hire adventuring parties to follow even the slightest hints for it... and who goes the way to find out how the Elves became immortal, back at the dawn of recorded history.

In other words, such a list would be the best imaginable McGuffin for a campaign, and explain Elven immortality in terms of progress rather than godly creation or gift.

Besides, realistically speaking, if a mortal being that doesn't like death (so, everyone except necromancers and the likes of them...) has access to vast arcane powers, I cannot imagine they would not try to find a way around death; at least some of them.

And on top of all that, it's a genre trope. :P

I mean, even in our world, scientists are working on the problem for exactly the same reason.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 11:51:16 AM »
That's an interesting idea for a plot line hook.

My reasoning for elves living longer are a mixture of things...
1) They've been around much longer in the world and are genetically more suited to longer life in addition to simply having learned the medical knowledge required.
2) They've harnessed magic better and over vast amounts of time it has become a part of them.
3) They are vastly more peaceful than most the races so their efforts throughout the eons are focused (which is really kind of related to 1 and 2).
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 12:49:17 PM »
Now that I think about it, I wonder why there isn't something like that list in the main rules, put there from the beginning as it is such a natural thing for mortal beings to create. There should be examples of it in all three realms of power, likely closed lists, not because of popularity, but because of power level of the spell list.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2013, 09:34:39 PM »
Now that I think about it, I wonder why there isn't something like that list in the main rules, put there from the beginning as it is such a natural thing for mortal beings to create. There should be examples of it in all three realms of power, likely closed lists, not because of popularity, but because of power level of the spell list.

From a rules mechanics point of view, it doesn't make sense to dedicate a whole list to solving a problem which itself is not really addressed by the rules. There aren't really aging rules, and especially not at the level of age-induced ailments and age-caused Appearance modifiers. For this list to be anything more than roleplaying color, those things would have to be fleshed out, and relevant in the game.

I would be more inclined to slot some of these spells into gaps in existing lists, rather than expect a player to spend a lot of DP on these, unless age is going to be a big factor in the campaign (e.g. running a multigenerational campaign).
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Offline markc

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 10:31:12 PM »
 I like the list but I do not know if I would include it in my game. The reason why is age and death is a big factor in my games of the past (the game I am working on now not so much), but that being said I could see a game world that you went to X Temple to get your yearly aging treatments just like you might take a drug in a future setting.
 
 I would also like to see better age rules like JDale says above also included somewhere in the rule set or as an article at the Guild Companion .com
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Offline Thot

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2013, 11:47:24 PM »
From a rules mechanics point of view, it doesn't make sense to dedicate a whole list to solving a problem which itself is not really addressed by the rules. There aren't really aging rules, and especially not at the level of age-induced ailments and age-caused Appearance modifiers. [...]

Doesn't this cry for some mechanic involving an Aging Critical Hit table? Might also make those aging spells a bit more colorful. ^^

Offline RandalThor

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Re: Rejuvenation, halt aging, or turning someone into an elf
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 12:24:37 AM »
From a rules mechanics point of view, it doesn't make sense to dedicate a whole list to solving a problem which itself is not really addressed by the rules.
Yeah, I was really talking "in character" there, I guess. But that does highlight a part of my gaming philosophy: I don't like rules divorced from setting* so much. Which is probably why I don't like the fact that the majority of things in games are built with adventurers in mind and not a whole society. (This goes back to the Social Implications of Magic article, which I have yet to read *sheesh!*  :o )


*I think this comes from the fact that I am an old gamer and enjoyed all the games that came out as both rules and setting.
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