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Hereditary Monarchy......and Lifegiving
Green Manalishi:
A thought came to me with a situation in my campaign, say a king dies and the heir takes the throne. Then she dies and the heir then takes the throne.
What would happen if the first King is resurrected? How would that play out?
I ask because in my game a lost artifact only functions for the rightful king. This king was killed but there is a faction that will try to resurrect him.
And to throw a wrench, one of his predecessors who was rightfully king is now a lich, and wants that artifact back.
MisterK:
It depends on so many things that getting a straight answer is next to impossible.
- according to law, can a monarch be deposed legally, or must they die or relinquish the crown willingly for it to go to someone else ?
- what is the social and traditional view of elders - is it "the head of the family is always the elder", or is it something different, such as "the head of the family is the one in a position of power" ?
- are deceased people still part of the social order in some way or not ?
- what is the social view on resurrection ? what is the view of the law ? what is the view of the religion, or religions ?
- is the current monarch popular or not ? Was the deceased monarch popular or not ? How much time passed since their demise, and did their memory fade somewhat in the global consciousness ?
- would the current monarch defer to their ancestor, or are they secure enough in their own self ?
- are the people who want to resurrect the old king popular, or are they nobodies, or even considered troublemakers (or even criminals - you know, people who go looting ruins and tombs instead of earning their keep honestly with a trade) ?
- is the artifact known for this capability to design the rightful king ? Who actually believes that ? Who would use that legend to prop up their own candidate ? And if the artifact is not well known, can it be falsified somehow - use the legend to design a false artifact that would just convince the populace that whoever takes it *is* the rightful king ?
- is it possible to have several "rightful" kings ? (if there is no divine right, then it might be possible to have several legitimate kings and a partition of the kingdom).
The answer doesn't exist in a vacuum. You might get a civil war out of it, depending on the general population view of the matter and how the various political forces align with the crown contestants.
What is sure is that the *current* monarch starts with a position of power - they wear the crown, and if they want to keep it, someone will have to take it from them.
Vladimir:
Royal order of succession are normally set by law and updated by a new sovereign, births, deaths, marriages and other factors.
The status of resurrected people would be determined by law. Since a person cannot be resurrected unless first declared dead, what is the legal status of a dead person? Normally, their ranks, properties, etc., are reassigned as per law. So, it is up to legislation to restore a resurrected individual's legal status, once qualifications are determined and challenges resolved.
Do legal standards take precedence over other considerations? How much weight does religion have? Would a king summoned from another era also have claim to the throne?
--- Quote ---And to throw a wrench, one of his predecessors who was rightfully king is now a lich, and wants that artifact back.
--- End quote ---
Again, legal standards would take precedence. What is the legal status of a lich? How does an item resolve the criteria of "rightful king" among a number of qualified successors? How does anybody expect to calibrate such an item for accuracy?
--- Quote ---WOMAN: Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,...
[angels sing]
...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
--- End quote ---
jdale:
Whenever there is any legal ambiguity whatsoever, and often when there isn't, if there are factions supporting two different individuals the result is conflict. Depending on the parties involved that could be political conflict (trying to convince enough people to sway a decision) or all the way up to civil war.
Define the laws in a way that supports the story you want to tell. Do you want a conflict? If so, do you want it to be a quiet behind the scenes political conflict, a big open political struggle, a full out war, etc? If you want a political struggle, there should be some kind of political process to make the decision, e.g. maybe there is a council of nobles who formally make the decision and a certain number need to be persuaded. If you want a war, don't have a political process, have a tradition that has not needed any conflict resolution in the past so there isn't any agreed-upon way to settle it. Or have a political process that requires consensus or otherwise will fail to resolve.
EltonJ:
--- Quote from: jdale on June 09, 2022, 12:11:19 PM ---Whenever there is any legal ambiguity whatsoever, and often when there isn't, if there are factions supporting two different individuals the result is conflict. Depending on the parties involved that could be political conflict (trying to convince enough people to sway a decision) or all the way up to civil war.
Define the laws in a way that supports the story you want to tell. Do you want a conflict? If so, do you want it to be a quiet behind the scenes political conflict, a big open political struggle, a full out war, etc? If you want a political struggle, there should be some kind of political process to make the decision, e.g. maybe there is a council of nobles who formally make the decision and a certain number need to be persuaded. If you want a war, don't have a political process, have a tradition that has not needed any conflict resolution in the past so there isn't any agreed-upon way to settle it. Or have a political process that requires consensus or otherwise will fail to resolve.
--- End quote ---
What if it was the King's time to die? Would life giving still work?
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