Topic: Weariness for magic usage

[Falenthal]

Does anyone use any rules to represent the weariness of spell casting?

Almost in every novel/film the spell casters get tired after using their magic and need to rest for a while or even draw energy from their physical body to maintain a certain spell. In HARP I don't see any effect for having your full Power Points or being reduced to zero.

I don't think it should imply new numbers, like Weariness Level or such things.
I was thinking of some penalty to all actions directly related to the number of PPs spent or, like it happens with the Hit Points, a penalty after you consume half your PPs or something like that.

Any ideas?

[dagorhir]

I don't recall seeing any rules for fatigue or weariness any in Harp. I think the concept could be used for more than spell casting.

[RandalThor]

You can just use the Rolemaster method of imposing negative mods as the power points are being used up. I think it is something like: -10 at 75%, -20 at 50%, and -30 at 75% (%'s are used PP).

[Falenthal]

You can just use the Rolemaster method of imposing negative mods as the power points are being used up. I think it is something like: -10 at 75%, -20 at 50%, and -30 at 75% (%'s are used PP).

Yes, that would be it.
I'll just have to add a small space in the character sheet next to the PPs to write down how many PPs are 75% and so on.  None of us likes to do the maths everytime a PP is spent. 

[GrumpyOldFart]

I've been trying to incorporate both fatigue and sanity risk, and sanity risk becomes greater not only with the power of the spell, but with fatigue. I don't really care for "low magic" settings per se, I think very powerful magic should be available... if you have the knowledge and if you're willing to take the risk. Attempts at world-changing magic that fail should leave you either dead or mad, at best. What, you expect a dinosaur-killer if it works, but don't want any more than a slap on the wrist if you blow it? Sorry, that's not happening, not in my game, not if I can help it.

And yes, I'll play a magic user myself under those conditions. Sure. If I wouldn't, I haven't gotten it right yet. I think it would be more fun that way, as it is the fighters always take all the risks and have all the fun.

[Turbs]

I generally try to have my PC's roleplay thier exhaustion..when they fail to do so.
Then I apply negative mods..

dort of carrot and stick GM'ing methodolgy
reward XP for good RPing of thier strengths.
aplly penalties for ignoring flaws/exhaustion etc.

I find that with this method you only need to hit them once or twice with a penalty before they catch on and the RP gets better so you dont even have to think about it

[Falenthal]

I've been trying to incorporate both fatigue and sanity risk, and sanity risk becomes greater not only with the power of the spell, but with fatigue.

Seems like you're a "Cthulhu type"! 

[GrumpyOldFart]

Meh... mostly I'm an electronics type. It's fairly simple and straightforward for a power transistor to control enough energy that the band's sound system can be heard clearly miles away. But if it turns out that the load is beyond the limits of that transistor, the result is not pretty, and that one transistor may not be the only thing toasted beyond help. It's too easy for me to imagine the caster's brain as doing a very similar job to a power transistor in an arena sound system, with very similar consequences of failure.

That doesn't mean you should be scared to light the campfire with magic. What it does mean is that if you are trying to control a hurricane 500 miles across, and you look realistically at the disparity between the energy budget of yourself and the energy budget of the system you're trying to control, the ugly possible results of failure that your imagination brings up shouldn't be paranoia, they should be perfectly rational concerns. As for lighting the campfire, the dangers should be about equivalent to lighting the campfire any other way. If you don't take the time to put the gas can down first, you should rightly be regarded as an idiot and a hazard to everyone around you. And if you blow it really badly, no one should be surprised if you and everyone close to you become what the US military refers to as a "screaming alpha fire."

 

[RandalThor]

It's too easy for me to imagine the caster's brain as doing a very similar job to a power transistor in an arena sound system, with very similar consequences of failure.

Who says it is the brain... 

(Though that doesn't negate the point.)

[GrumpyOldFart]

It's too easy for me to imagine the caster's brain as doing a very similar job to a power transistor in an arena sound system, with very similar consequences of failure.

Who says it is the brain... 

Well there is that. I'm not sure what the power control risks would be with Fixed mana use, but with Personal mana I'd say it's your brain, with Granted mana it's your soul. With Ambient mana use you're being the pinch point in the energy budget of an entire planet, so when they find the smoking crater where you once stood, does it really matter what part of you failed to control the energies involved?

 

[GrumpyOldFart]

Why do magic users traditionally carry no other weapons besides a belt knife or a stick? Because people who hang around magic users and live know better than to allow them to have weapons.

 

[jdale]

Why do magic users traditionally carry no other weapons besides a belt knife or a stick? Because people who hang around magic users and live know better than to allow them to have weapons.

 

In our game, it's become not just something we consider but actually an automatic reflex that whenever the mentalist is doing something of questionable wisdom, my character stands behind him so I can knock him out if he gets possessed again.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Exactly. If you know a spell caster well enough to see on his face that he's doing something difficult, you either

1) run a long way away.
2) knock him out right now.
3) stand close by in case you have to kill him suddenly.

[ironmaul]

That would make a good article as to why magic users become paranoid and social outcasts. It sort of asks the question why on earth you'd want a mage in you party to start with.
Back on topic: I don't see it as weariness but more a withdrawal symptom...I would imagine being charged with magical energy is like being on hard drugs. Of course pending game world and how magic works.

[GrumpyOldFart]

If you know a spell caster well enough to see on his face that he's doing something difficult, you either

That would make a good article as to why magic users become paranoid and social outcasts. It sort of asks the question why on earth you'd want a mage in you party to start with.

It would make me wonder how many mages had been accidentally beheaded because last night's beans and onions didn't agree with them. 

[Cory Magel]

The setting I'm developing is seemingly magic light in that less worldly inhabitants fear most, of what they perceive as non-religious non-good magic.  The "charm maker" is not feared and often used, but anything more direct or powerful is likely to cause major fear.  However magic is somewhat common in very limited forms, not unheard of in semi-spell user strength (Paladins, Rangers, etc) and known of but rare in pure spell user strength (they'd be looked upon, good or bad, as a Gandolf type figure in term of awe or fear).  Fortunately the pure user in the group is a "Wind Mage" (very sought after because the setting has a strong ship based aspect), so much of his magic is effectively invisible.  If you tossed a fireball in a big city people would obviously move away, but they would be afraid of the fireball itself, not necessarily the caster - and you'd probably get arrested.  If you did the same in a small village you'd either clear the place entirely due to panic or attract a lynch mob.

[GrumpyOldFart]

And so they should. The same neighbors who will think nothing of inviting you over to shoot fireworks with them on a holiday will nonetheless have every right to be nervous, even demanding of limits on your behavior on your own land, when you turn your yard into a mortar practice range.

To me the real purposes of spell failure are:

1. To provide the distinctive flavor of magic in your setting.
2. To provide the rationale for the social cost of magic use in your world.

With those two things you define what professions are available, what spells are available, what forms of mana are available, and whether the locals will lynch you, hide from you or throw a feast in honor of your arrival. It also defines how willing a spellcaster is to let others know who and what he is, and puts a whole new skid to the open wearing of things like priestly vestments.

[RandalThor]

And so they should. The same neighbors who will think nothing of inviting you over to shoot fireworks with them on a holiday will nonetheless have every right to be nervous, even demanding of limits on your behavior on your own land, when you turn your yard into a mortar practice range.

Unless you invite them to participate.