Topic: Questions on Research Skill for Spell Lists.

[providence13]

 Does anyone have much experience with the Research skill as it applies to Lists?

Have you found it to be too powerful?

Has it drastically changed your game?

The skill allows similar effects to Spell Mastery with a lot less risk.
pg 101 SoHK: "Difficulty of research is based on familiarity of topic and access to materials, lab, etc."

The way I understand it..

+30 Researching a modification to a known spell. You would now know both versions of the spell. Major changes could change spell lvl or add to DR.

+20 Researching a spell that will exist on a known List. This is for filling in gaps in the List.

+10 Researching a spell from another List into an existing List you know. Also for filing in gaps.

+0 Researching a spell that will exist without a List. Final lvl and DP cost set by GM.

-10 Researching a spell which has effects not common to your Profession or Realm. Healing for Essence users, for example.

-20 Researching a Spell List that alters an entire known List.

-30 Researching an existing List that will now be a Base List, for DP cost.

-50 Researching an entirely new List created by caster. Same Realm.

-75 Researching a new List, created by caster, of another Realm.

The effects will be permanent so you wouldn't have to roll (like SM) each time you cast the new/modified spell. This is much less risky than Spell Mastery. You can then SM the new spell on the fly, as always.

Research is in Science Analytic-Basic which is cheap for every Profession but 1/4 for Pure Casters!

Time for research is based on Spell Research Time Chart (pg. 95, Of Essence). Averages to be about 1wk/lvl, adding more time as lvl increases.
(I'd still make you spend the DP to learn new spells/Lists as always.)

I might even allow starting play with some of easier research (minor effects, lower lvl spells) already done, depending on TP, background, starting funds, etc. We normally start at 3rd lvl.

[yammahoper]

After research (I recommend SM research tables to roll on for cost and timemodifiers), the new spell would require dev points to learn on a suitable list at a suitable level.  Perhaps +1 level per additional mod to the original spell.

[Ynglaur]

Or you could allow the PC to "know" the spell, but to require a SCSM to cast it (similar to overcasting rules).

[VladD]

For my game, if it is a new spell list: learn the spell list for normal DP.

If the spell is on an existing list: the spell would either share a level spot on the list: simply pay the DP cost for a spell of that type on that level, or it appears in an empty spot and you've either paid the cost already, or its now on the empty spot waiting for the player to learn the list to that level.

So my players tend to fill the the empty spots on their lists with research.

[providence13]

1) On one hand, the player/researcher is paying for the changes with time, money and DP.

a) Time for research is as rare as horses in my game (Adventuring is hard on mounts, apparently.) and trekking through tombs, forests, etc. leaves little time for study.

b) Money is also fairly scarce. Coinage isn't lying around and overall the group has no skill in appraisal or bartering. Exchange rates are also helpful for controlling disposable income.

c) DP is available at 100/lvl. You're still subject to penalties for developing more than 5 Lists/lvl, etc.

2) On the other, I might not fully consider how a mod impacts the game.

a) Allowing the Mage to take a few Monk Lists (Body Renewal) as Base makes him very self-sufficient. SM in the List compounds the problem. He's pretty successful at "caster/self to target/touch", which is only -30 SM. Smart player.

b) Also, the same guy has researched (adding a spell to known List) 4th lvl Presence (Essence Perceptions) to 50ft rad and 9th lvl to 10ft/lvl. Sure he paid for it, but it is vexing when the PC's believe someone is around the corner..

All spells in my game require SCSM and I don't use overcasting. Spell casting is dangerous business.

Thanks for the ideas. My players are getting crafty.. 

[markc]

2a) There is a list in the Essence Comp for the Mage,. I think it is Self (something) but it gives the caster armor (AT) for PP, as well as lots of other goodies. IMHO I think it should be a base list in its power level myself.


 As a side note I have also thought that a group of lists that are Open Base Lists. And by that I mean are as powerful as base lists but anyone can take them. IMHO it would add a lot/more of flavor to the game.
MDC

[jdale]

In the Arcane Companion there is a section about Macro-Lists (page 41). The idea here is that a spell list you learn may be only partial and you can later fill in the blanks with research or acquired knowledge. The rule is that you have to re-learn the specific level of the spell when you fill in a gap, but you don't have to learn the whole list again.

I would apply this any time a gap is filled in on an existing spell list.

Also, with regard to "-10 Researching a spell which has effects not common to your Profession or Realm. Healing for Essence users, for example."  Personally, I am a believer in having strong distinctions between the lists. I would simply say there is no healing in essence, period. (I prefer the mentalism-based monk.) But when things are possible but "not common" I would apply a much greater penalty and also make them higher level than in other realms.

[Temujin]

I tend to prefer using the research rules in the Essence Companion rather than the SoHK ones.  You should check it out.