Topic: many PP multiplier

[shalafi]

What's up when a sorcerer wield two x2 multiplier?

a) nothing: they not stack
b) he recive the befetit of a x3 multiplier (like D&D where two x2 become a x3)
c) he recive the befetit of a x4 multiplier (because  2x2 =4)
d) other

Where I can find a rule that explain that?

[shalafi]

(sorry for the double post)

And I have the same doubt with ojects that give (i.e.) a BD or a BO bonus. They stacks?

[markc]

PP multipliers do not stack as well as spell bonus items do not stack.
   (Note as a house rule in the past I have let multiple spell bonus items apply but they were very limited in nature. For example a PP multiplier that only affects 1 spell list or a spell adder that only affects 1 spell list. I have also had items in the past that affect only single spells.)


 As per items that give a bonus to skills I use my judgement as to if they stack or not.


 As per BD or BO are you talking about body development? If so then I think the rules say no.
  (But see my house rule note under PP multipliers. In this case I have given special bonus hits in specific situations, ie +50 hits if fighting White Claw Orcs and you have less that 100 people in your group.)


MDC

[shalafi]

Sorry, I mean Defensive Bonus and Offensive Bonus (^_^).

But I have understood: they don't stack.
thank you.

[Spectre771]

pg 28 Spell Law for RMU:

Only one bonus item should be usable by any one character between
periods of rest (possession of two “x2” PP multipliers does not
multiply your spell points by 4). The objects attune to the caster’s
aura, and two will create interference.

I believe the rule is the same for RM2. 99% positive. 

[markc]

Again IMHO OB and DB items may stack but it depends on the items, spells or effects.
MDC

[Spectre771]

Again IMHO OB and DB items may stack but it depends on the items, spells or effects.
MDC

I agree completely and we followed the same convention in our games which leads me to believe it was not just a house rule, and I recall an example in RM2 that shows how a PP multiplier would work with a PP adder for a realm working with a PP adder for a particular list.  The PPs were used for very specific reasons, but allowing all of the bonuses to be combined into a massive multiplier/adder bonus was not allowed.

The PPx would only multiply the total PP inherent to the caster's ability and he could only use one PPx item (usually the highest if he was lucky enough to have more than one).  The PP+ only worked a specific spell or list (for the example given).  The PC has x2 PP so he gets, say 14 PP per day instead of 7.  But he has a +4 Spell adder for Ranger's Ways list.  He can only use those 4PP for specifically casting spells from that list, those PP do not come from the caster's 14 PP and those 4PP are not multiplied by the x2.

I don't think that was a house rule we used, it was a base rule from the game.  We explained it away as the x2 multiplier affected the spell caster.  The +2 item was imbued with the ability to cast 4 points from that list, and it only 'knew' that list and was therefore not subjected to the x2 as it wasn't really part of the caster's innate ability/aura/being.

I know we did stack items in this manner:
PPx2 = 7PP becomes 14PP
PP+2 (just general PP adder, not attuned to a list or anything like that) = 14PP + 2PP  = 16PP
  We added the +2 PP, but it was not subjected to the x2.  Not 14PP + (2*2) = 18PP

We also restricted Magic Rings to two; one ring per hand.  We said the magical auras were in too close proximity and the auras cancelled each other out, so no loading the hands up with ten +PP spell adders! LOL

We definitely stacked OB and DB, but had guidelines too.  You can't wear two helms and get the DB from both.  Simply having the +10 Sword on your body doesn't stack with the +10 sword you are wielding.  General things like that.  +5 Ring of Defense, +10 Shield, + 5 Helm of DB = +20DB?  Heck yeah!  We did that all day long.

[tulgurth]

One must also be careful with Quality, Material and Magical bonuses to OB as they do not stack either.  At least in RMSS they do not.  You normally get the higher bonuses, but if the item is magical it can still affect creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons.

[markc]

IIRC, quality stacks with both material and magic but I would have to check as it might be a house rule.
MDC

[jdale]

RMFRP Treasure Law says (page 44):
"If weapons and armor are enchanted to get a magical bonus, then the user can elect to use either the non-magical bonus (due to the material) or the magical bonus (but not both)."

You would generally use the higher bonus, except you might use a lower magical bonus if magic is required to hit a particular creature. Many of the spells for enchanting items with higher bonuses require that the item is made of a superior material to begin with. So there is still a reason to have an item of superior material and also a magic bonus.

You can make an item with a higher strength (to resist breakage), lower weight, initiative bonus, or even reduced maneuver penalty by virtue of skilled craftsmanship alone. But it doesn't look like you can make a bonus item with skilled craftsmanship, that takes a superior material (which presumably also takes superior skill to work) or magic. So stacking is not relevant here unless you house-rule it, and then it's your problem, not the problem of the rules....

RM2/RMC may differ on some of these points.

[tulgurth]

IIRC, since my treasure companion is at home and I am not, each magical item bonus, +5, +10, etc. requires a superior material equal to the magical bonus being placed on the item.  For instance, mithril, which I believe bestows a material bonus of +25, would required to make a +25 bonus item.  But it has been awhile since I read through those pages dealing with the construction of a magical item.

[Ecthelion]

IIRC, since my treasure companion is at home and I am not, each magical item bonus, +5, +10, etc. requires a superior material equal to the magical bonus being placed on the item.  For instance, mithril, which I believe bestows a material bonus of +25, would required to make a +25 bonus item.  But it has been awhile since I read through those pages dealing with the construction of a magical item.

The magical item you create using any material is usually +5 higher in bonus than the non-magical version. E.g. a non-magical high steel dagger will grant a +10 bonus while a magical high steel dagger will provide the +10 from the material +5 from the enchantment for a total +15. At least according to RMSS TC.

[Ecthelion]

Again IMHO OB and DB items may stack but it depends on the items, spells or effects.

I agree to this, but would advise to hand out such items adding to OB other than the weapon and to DB other than armor and shield very carefully. Otherwise you may end up with characters having +20 DB armor plus +20 DB shield plus a +15 DB ring plus a +10 DB bracelet or whatever - and this is IMHO not desirable. Therefore in our game we only allow bonus weapons to be purchased for a bonus to OB and bonus armor and shields for a DB bonus. We may hand out other items, like the aforementioned +15 DB rings, as very special unique items for high level characters, but usually we don't do this. The only option to get such a DB bonus ring would be an enchanted ring with constant Protection III or so. But this is at least quite costly.