Topic: Rolemaster Unified art: what happened?

[pastaav]

There are plenty of books with smaller audiences and better art. Core Laws is a platinum seller. Assuming $2 from each copy went to art, that's an art budget of at least $2000. I've done more with less.

The interesting question if those other books ever reached break-even or if they are labours of love that are sold at a loss.

I think a very common case is that small scale authors/publishers does not spare any expenses to get the book as good as it gets. Very few authors of fiction can live on their trade and Roleplaying books takes magitudes of more work. Small audience and paying the cost it takes to match the production level of industry giants like D&D doesn't really mix.

Secondly...that the books now are platium sellers is a fact in hindsight, but how could Ironcrown possibly know this when they ordered the art? The idea that Ironcrown would have any large pile of cash lying around to pay for arts to upcoming books is rediculous.

Thirdly...if the fans have cash to spare. Are not those better spent on more books for the gaming group so we quicker reach the Mithral best seller class?

[jdale]

It's not (only) about paying more for art.
Look at the layout here.
https://imgur.com/a/14hOu4p
This is a random page, literally the first page I flipped to from the last pdf I had open.
See how the shape of the art has been incorporated into the column layout of the page? See how background textures have been used? See how there is a shadow from the dwarf which spills over into the page? This all gives it life and visual appeal. It's basic stuff at this point. Nothing to do with budget.

I don't love the background texture, it looks kind of cool at the expense of readability. Similarly with wrapping text around images. Text is full justified for readability. I don't think that adds anything. It's dynamic in the sense that it disrupts the text layout, but that's also its weakness.

[Mordenkainen]

Anyway I apologise to those who worked hard on these books. I know that they all did their best, and I'm happy with the substance of the new edition. Just not the presentation. I stand by my opinion that no-one in the team has real credibility in art direction/layout, and that this hurt the final product. In keeping with its old school heritage, Rolemaster people seem just not visually oriented.
I'll just add that RMSS is an example of good layout (now dated, but the style was fine at the time) with low-budget art. The art sometimes let the page down, but everything flowed well and was clearly presented.

[Cory Magel]

I'll just add that RMSS is an example of good layout (now dated, but the style was fine at the time) with low-budget art.

But you're comparing a company with full time employees with a better budget. Just like I suspect the page you used as an example was even bigger company with an even bigger budget.

[Mordenkainen]

I'll just add that RMSS is an example of good layout (now dated, but the style was fine at the time) with low-budget art.

But you're comparing a company with full time employees with a better budget. Just like I suspect the page you used as an example was even bigger company with an even bigger budget.

The example I gave was from the Talisman Adventures RPG from Pegasus Spiele. Yes, a bigger company with a bigger budget. But we have excellent software these days, why can't an individual working from home lay out a good-looking book? Is is just that the time involved to do each page, for example with text often wrapped around art, was not available to the ICE team? Is it that folk with the skills charge an arm and a leg?

[Cory Magel]

The example I gave was from the Talisman Adventures RPG from Pegasus Spiele. Yes, a bigger company with a bigger budget. But we have excellent software these days, why can't an individual working from home lay out a good-looking book? Is is just that the time involved to do each page, for example with text often wrapped around art, was not available to the ICE team? Is it that folk with the skills charge an arm and a leg?

You say this like everyone with a digital camera should be able to become a professional photographer. They can't. You need to dedicate time to it. ICE can't do that. It's not their actual job, it's essentially a side hobby.  You're talking about someone who doesn't publish as their full time job using a program that they may not own.

[cdcooley]

It's not (only) about paying more for art.
Look at the layout here.
https://imgur.com/a/14hOu4p
This is a random page, literally the first page I flipped to from the last pdf I had open.
See how the shape of the art has been incorporated into the column layout of the page? See how background textures have been used? See how there is a shadow from the dwarf which spills over into the page? This all gives it life and visual appeal. It's basic stuff at this point. Nothing to do with budget.

I don't love the background texture, it looks kind of cool at the expense of readability. Similarly with wrapping text around images. Text is full justified for readability. I don't think that adds anything. It's dynamic in the sense that it disrupts the text layout, but that's also its weakness.

I agree. A book formatted that way may look pretty and have an initial appeal, but for me it's extremely hard to read and would be horrible as a reference. Accessibility for people with differing vision and perception issues is important.

The text formatting used to structure the page loses much of its effectiveness when combined with text being restructured purely for artistic purposes. The reduced (and variable) contrast created by the background is harder for me to read. And the overall visual clutter of the outer border makes it hard for me to focus on the text.

To me the layout of the RMU books is far superior to that example page.

[rdanhenry]

Just to be clear, the kind of textured-background, color-heavy design was created specifically to make it hard to scan. It may now be copied without thought for its origin, but it's fundamentally a copy-protection measure.

[pawsplay]

The 'problem' is pretty obvious. ICE isn't in a position to be paying higher end artists. Period.

There are plenty of books with smaller audiences and better art. Core Laws is a platinum seller. Assuming $2 from each copy went to art, that's an art budget of at least $2000. I've done more with less.

Show us what you've published, please?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/211267/do-not-approach

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/423878/before-the-empire-the-3-0-srd

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/194515/the-eliminator-5e

https://www.dmsguild.com/product/207804/Ex-Cyclopedia

There's a few. Nothing fancy, just a mix of custom and stock art.