Author Topic: Old newbie needs help.  (Read 5203 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2010, 01:19:13 PM »
I don't think I have ever ran a game or ben in a game of RM where we used mini's and I love RM and have had lots of fun playing. Does that help?
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline ragr

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2010, 02:01:50 PM »
That's pretty much the kind of reply I was hoping for.  Thanks, RandalThor.

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2010, 03:18:07 PM »
That's pretty much the kind of reply I was hoping for.  Thanks, RandalThor.


 I use mini's but they are not essential to the game.  Of course you can also use just about anything else if you do not have mini's. Just try and stay away from candy as fairly soon the board is blank. But the bonus is if you kill it you eat it.


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

  • Inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2010, 05:40:31 PM »
I have played with and without minis. Works fine either way.

However, you may not want to completely go off minis - just reduce their importance to setting the initial stage...

Personally, I prefer to use minis, or at least something to better show where everybody is and what is basically happening. But absent minis, I have used numbered slips of paper, dice, etc.. -- anything that helps to show the starting positions also aids in the players thinking about what they want to do (i.e. sometimes what they want to do doesn't fit with where everybody is, and some sort of representation of that positioning is always helpful for those who are not as adept at thinking along the lines needed to hold positions of everybody in their heads.

That way, the player can say, "I run over there and do xx" rather than "I move 3 squares, turn left for another 2 squares and then do xx".

The minis/placeholders would help him identify any obstacles that might not be immediately apparent.




Offline Witchking20k

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,312
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2010, 08:05:13 PM »
I think it depends on the group and how they work best.  Have you been playing with the same group for a while? 
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Offline PiXeL01

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 632
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Seeing things from the top of Mt. Fuji
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2010, 09:09:16 PM »
Minies arent essential and RM works great with and without. It does sometimes help having them though, just to show positions as Rasyr and others have pointed out.
It all comes down to peoples imagination ^^
PiXeL01 - RM2/RMC Fanboy

I think violence in games only causes violence in real life if the person in question has an insufficient mental capacity to deal with the real world in the first place. But, that's more the fault of poor genetics and poorer parenting than it is the fault of a videogame

Offline providence13

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,944
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2010, 11:59:08 PM »
Mini's are pretty important for showing placement for us.
Almost as soon as I ask for initiative, the players ask "are these 10ft or 5 ft squares?"
It's great for showing movement, area of effect, bow ranges..

I made a big grid map and stuck glass on top for the dry erase markers.

I was thinking of buying a sheet of plywood and some blackboard/chalkboard paint. Paint white line grids or hexes and you're set. Definitely affordable.
"The Lore spell assaults your senses- Roll on the spontaneous human combustion table; twice!"

Offline pastaav

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,617
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Swedish gaming club
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2010, 02:20:00 AM »
I don't use minis in my gaming. You run in the occasional discussion about who have a straight line of sight or not, but in my experience these are rare things. Normally it is enough to just listen to what each character want to do and do an occasional maneuver roll when things conflict.
/Pa Staav

Offline ragr

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2010, 07:40:00 AM »
The problem I have with 3.5/Pathfinder is that it is pretty much set up for using figures and some rules will only work well with an exact representation of where your character is; feats, attacks of opportunity etc.  I remember well playing AD&D 1st edition with no figures at all and resolving combat quite satisfactorily just by making a few judgement calls and letting imagination do the rest.  That's how I want to game and my current game has degenerated to the point where you end up thinking in squares and how you can position to get an attack but not run the risk of being bolted. It's become tedious in other words. I'll still use minis for marching order or special situations but probably not for combat.

I can see nothing in RMX that would suggest figures are essential (on a hex or square grid) and I just wanted clarification from your experiences that my assessment is correct.  As I said before I intend to carry on with Pathfinder for my main group and use RMX (and hopefully Classic at some point) for my son's as an experiment.  If Pathfinder proves a nightmare to run without figures, however, then maybe the whole campaign can convert.   

Offline yammahoper

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,858
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2010, 08:27:43 AM »
Quote
resolving combat quite satisfactorily just by making a few judgement calls and letting imagination do the rest.

Exactly. 

Imagine using imagination for a game of imagination.

Roleplaying Games aint nothing but playing pretend with a few rules to stop all that "I HIT YOU!"  "NO YOU DIDNT!" that dominated our Starwars play on stacked up skids that served most excellently as both Millenium Falcon AND Death Star.

No minis.  Trust your GM.  GM's, trust yourself. 
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,225
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2010, 08:40:25 AM »
The problem I have with 3.5/Pathfinder is that it is pretty much set up for using figures and some rules will only work well with an exact representation of where your character is; feats, attacks of opportunity etc.
Well, to be honest, it was just going back to its roots: miniature wargames, for what D&D was originally created.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline providence13

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,944
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2010, 09:08:26 AM »
The only rule: Have fun!
Whatever works at your particular table.  :)
No, they aren't necessary..

My players are pretty good about changing the die beside mini's for stun rounds and it totally stopped the "No, I was over ......here! No way that spell could affect me."

And one of my players told the mage "Since you Longdoor, that Earth elemental is out of your control range.." I grabbed dice, "hmm does it attack or run?" I hate all those elementals.
"The Lore spell assaults your senses- Roll on the spontaneous human combustion table; twice!"

Offline ragr

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2010, 12:59:43 PM »
That all sounds good to me.  Re-affirmation as it were.  All those years of playing and sometimes you just need to be reminded of the simple stuff.

Especially;

No minis.  Trust your GM.  GM's, trust yourself. 

Offline jolt

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 203
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2010, 02:06:58 PM »
On the rare opportunities that I get to play we don't use minis for combat.  However, we usually will have a painted mini for each character and important/recurring villain.  Since none of us can draw all that well, but some of us can paint at least at a modest level, it's nice sometimes to have that visual representation of what everybody's character looks like.  That's just our little gimmick though.  Imagination is always the gamer's most powerful tool.

jolt
"Logic will take you from A to B.  Imagination will take you everywhere." ~Einstein

Offline ragr

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2010, 03:09:19 AM »
Halfway through reading RMX and most things are clearly going to fit my Greyhawk campaign; character generation is fine and combat is exactly what I remembered and liked.

I do have a few questions that you guys may be able to help with regarding Spell users.

1) It seems to me that magic users get to use considerably less spells per day in RM than in D&D, which is not a huge problem as I like a low magic campaign; given that this may be the case is it wise for spell users to develop plenty of skills elsewhere in order to remain effective in a traditional adventuring group?  If so, what would be the value of investing development points into a spell list above the level of spell you can cast?

2) Spell Duration; under "duration (C)" it clearly states if the caster stops concentrating the spell temporarily ceases but can be picked up again by the caster if they re-concentrate as long as the duration has not expired, so no problem with that.  However, when just "C" is listed there is a lack of clarity.  If the caster ceases concentration does the spell end?  Or, can it be restarted again as with the above listing? (I'm assuming not at this stage because that would effctively mean the spell has an unlimited duration in effect.)  If another spell is cast while concentating does the current spell end? 

3) Spell descriptions are very basic compared with D&D/Pathfinder; not sure yet whether this is a strength or a weakness.  Is this brevity of explanation carried on into Spell Law?

Again, thanks in advance for opinions and help,

Ragr

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

  • Inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2010, 10:55:28 AM »
1) It seems to me that magic users get to use considerably less spells per day in RM than in D&D, which is not a huge problem as I like a low magic campaign; given that this may be the case is it wise for spell users to develop plenty of skills elsewhere in order to remain effective in a traditional adventuring group?  If so, what would be the value of investing development points into a spell list above the level of spell you can cast?
Couple of things to point out.

First of all, RMX gives magic using characters more power points than the core RMC rules to. This is, in part, to make them more viable overall. Express Additions #3 contains an option called Fast PP Regen, which allows a character to regain their Power Points faster than the core rules allow (i.e. core requires that they sleep for 8 hours), at a rate of about 5 or 10 minutes of complete rest per power point. When using that option, PP is a measure of how much power they can handle before requiring rest, not a measure of how much they have.

Spell users in RMX cannot cast spells above their level, regardless of whether or not they know them (this is the same as the core RMC). However, if a character DOES know a spell above his level, and he gains enough experience to go up a level while adventuring, that spell then becomes immediately available and usable without the character having to go train first. (This also depends on how you handle levelling up - if you don't require PCs to get to a location to train before allowing them to spend xp, then this is moot).

RMC's Spell Law does contain options (ESF) which will allow characters to cast spells above their level (in exchange for a larger fumble range, and much greater chance of damaging themselves should they fumble). In hindsight, I wish that we had included this in RMX, even if in a truncated form (such as the option found in Express Additions #3).

2) Spell Duration; under "duration (C)" it clearly states if the caster stops concentrating the spell temporarily ceases but can be picked up again by the caster if they re-concentrate as long as the duration has not expired, so no problem with that.  However, when just "C" is listed there is a lack of clarity.  If the caster ceases concentration does the spell end?  Or, can it be restarted again as with the above listing? (I'm assuming not at this stage because that would effectively mean the spell has an unlimited duration in effect.)  If another spell is cast while concentrating does the current spell end? 

Spells with a duration of "C" (without any other duration listed) will immediately end and cannot be resumed once the caster stops concentrating. (and note: being stunned will definitely stop a character from concentrating, for other damage, I would recommend having them make a Self Discipline roll to maintain concentration if damaged - there are no official rules for this, so you can handle it however you like.)

Also, look at the end of the first entry on page 26 - it specifically states that a caster cannot cast another spell while concentrating.

Those spells that have both duration and concentration allow the caster to stop concentrating, cast another spell, and then pick up where he left off with the first spell.

3) Spell descriptions are very basic compared with D&D/Pathfinder; not sure yet whether this is a strength or a weakness.  Is this brevity of explanation carried on into Spell Law?
Yes -- I think that the idea was partly to save space (originally, that is - the same descriptions (and description type) have essentially carried over into all versions of RM), and partly to allow the GM to customize them to the setting to some degree (i.e. 2 clerics casting the same spell might have it look very differently).

Use this to your advantage! Have players customize the looks of their spells (within reason) so that their version of a shock bolt is different from another caster's version. Have fun with it.

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Old newbie needs help.
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
2) "C" yes the spell ceases if you stop concentrating.
2) If another spell is cast with a (C) spell and the (C) spells duration has not expired I would allow the caster to re-concentrate on the other spell.
3) Yes the spell descriptions are short in SL or distilled down to their very essence if you like. But all spells will look different based on the school the caster learned from. It has been a long time for me since I have looked at my Grayhawk 1st edition but here goes with the names. So a spell learned from a Mage at the Castle Grayhawk would look the same for the two Mages who who leaned it there but if one Mage had learned it in the Savage Peaks it would look different. The effects would be the same but the audio, visual and tactial sensations will be different. ie a shock bolt from one might look like an eagle streaking towards the target where as one from a Izu Mage might look like a screaming deaths head.


MDC     
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.