Topic: Swords that shoot firebolts

[arnecooper]

I'm having a hard time with this. A fighter picks up a sword that can fire three firebolts per day. When she uses that power, what is her OB with the firebolt? I don't think it should be the same as her OB with the sword but I can't find any ruling on the matter.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The fighter needs to develop Directed Spell skill to use with the Firebolt.

It is akin to casting Firebolts from a wand...

[arnecooper]

The fighter needs to develop Directed Spell skill to use with the Firebolt.

It is akin to casting Firebolts from a wand...

That was my first thought but it costs 20 DP for a fighter to learn 1 level of directed spells. It just doesn't make sense to me. It would seem ridiculous for a warrior's weapon to even have that ability if it were so hard to use. It would only be useful to spell-casting characters, which I might be able to accept but the shadow world material has plenty of weapons like this that belong to non spell-users. An example is the Iron Wind book, in which the sword Aashinar, which can fire 3 fire or ice bolts a day, belongs to the king of the Ky'taari - a warrior-lord. And what about the Phoenix Sword? 

[markc]

 There are professions that have a lower chance for DS that Fighters do. Also when the swords were created maybe they were made for someone else such as a Warrior Mage.
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Shadow World sometimes does things that do not follow the rules (such as many NPCs having multiple professions when there are no official rules for such).  

You asked what is supposed to be used for OB for an elemental bolt from a device. Directed Spell is what is used. It doesn't matter what the device is, whether it is a sword, staff, or wand.

Now granted, there are some such items that also have a built in OB as well.

[providence13]

Now granted, there are some such items that also have a built in OB as well.

This is what I usually do when giving out items.

1) If the sword has a magic bonus, this could apply to the Firebolt as well.. but that's just an easy House Rule.

2) Make it a +20 to +30 Firebolt because it is pretty easy to point and shoot, once you get the hang of it. I did this with a Necklace of Missiles. "Tear off a Ruby and throw" is the activation/ritual of the spell and the fireball was +20 iirc. That way, anyone could use it, but it only had a few rubies left.

3) The item could give a bonus to the character so they can learn Directed Spells. Instead of 20 DP, the sword might allow them to learn it for 15, 12, or whatever you decide. Heck, you don't have to
 make it apply to ALL Directed Spells for ALL Firebolts as the directing of a casted spell could (?) be said to be different from casting it with the sword. Just let it apply to casting with the sword.

These are just quick ideas and won't work at every gaming table.
Your game bro!

[arnecooper]

1) If the sword has a magic bonus, this could apply to the Firebolt as well.. but that's just an easy House Rule.

2) Make it a +20 to +30 Firebolt because it is pretty easy to point and shoot, once you get the hang of it. I did this with a Necklace of Missiles. "Tear off a Ruby and throw" is the activation/ritual of the spell and the fireball was +20 iirc. That way, anyone could use it, but it only had a few rubies left.

I like these ideas.

[providence13]

Cool! Let us know how the game works out.

[pastaav]

The basic problem is really that the cost for Directed Spell is wrong from a realism point of view. In real life people that are close to being the fighter profession are adapt at using any weapon. Superior talent for learning to aim with weapons is the core of the profession and a sword of fire bolts is very much ordinary weapon when you get past the activation problem.

I am of the firm belief that if you take a medieval fighter and give him a uzi then he would, provided that he survive the initial experimentation, be very much be able to master the weapon. We have had this discussion before on the forum and there was a vocal crowd that argued the fighter would be unable to make use of his fighting instincts since the weapon is too alien for him.

I think it is same reasoning that have influenced the rule making for the directed spells and just because there is spells involved the DP cost has been assigned without consideration that fast learning of how to use weapons is the core of the archtype.

If you are using RMC it is simple to fix, just change the Directed Spell skill cost, with RMFRP it is bit more tricky due to the categories. Moving the skill to some athletic category is the most sensible, but that would prevent the magican to double buy the skill. Possible solutions would be to move the skill to athletic but to give all pure spell caster professions Directed Spell as a everyman skill. Of course you could also choose a different category, perhaps Tech General could be used.

[Tywyll]

I am of the firm belief that if you take a medieval fighter and give him a uzi then he would, provided that he survive the initial experimentation, be very much be able to master the weapon. We have had this discussion before on the forum and there was a vocal crowd that argued the fighter would be unable to make use of his fighting instincts since the weapon is too alien for him.

Ancient warriors can't use guns?

That's just... silly.

Plenty of tribal cultures, upon exposure to firearms, have picked them up pretty darn quickly.  Crossbows are easier to shoot than longbows, and guns are way easier to shoot than either.  A magic sword that just needed to be pointed and fired should probably just have an accuracy bonus, plus the character's attribute bonuses.  Learning to focus or aim it after that shouldn't really cost any class much at all.

I can understand, sort of, the justification for a wand requiring greater training, but that's assuming that part of the process of firing the wand was more mystical than a point and fire device.  In the case of the sword, which sounds equivalent to a gun, it should be pretty easy to use (unless it was specifically designed not to be). 

[providence13]

I can understand, sort of, the justification for a wand requiring greater training, but that's assuming that part of the process of firing the wand was more mystical than a point and fire device.

This would be in line with the 20 DP for Fighters.

Yeah, Pastaav is 'right as rain' with the points on realism. Fighters do excel at learning weapons; any weapons.

My point 3) above, handles one particular instance, but maybe a solid rule would work better for some.

If arnecooper doesn't mind, a related question..
Has anyone allowed different DP cost skill  advancement for better Attunement rolls?

'Fighter picks up the sword, realizes it's a really nice blade, perfect balance. Through experimentation/use she sees that it doesn't retain nicks and scratches.. or somehow determines it's magic.
Now, she tries Attunement...
Could a better roll give a bonus to use, or like markc said, above, maybe she can connect with it like the Profession it for which it was made. "You learn that it can shoot Firebolts AND can fire them like a Warrior Mage."

Just a thought.

[Fidoric]

It could make sense to use a skill with a cost similar to crossbow for example.
I think a mage OB with directed spells include both aiming and "power output". With a bolt shooting sword, the power is produced by the sword letting only the aiming part in the hand of the user. And I agree with the previous posters, a fighter is definitively good at using weapons and that means swinging, aiming, releasing...
That's just my point of view anyway.

[markc]

I have in my game changed individual skill costs and not the category cost in RMSS, and it has worked fine if you want to do it this way.

MDC

[yammahoper]

I dont have my book here, but what you need to read id Treasure Companion.

The sword is assumed to have ranks in directed spell equal to the highest level of spell needed to make the sword.  This can can never be increased or decreased as the power of the firebolt is now inherient to the sword.  The character will always use the swords power to figure ranks in firebolt, but adds his directed spell catacory bonus (which represents how much skill the caster can use in casting/directing the spell).

So basically, your observations are accurate.

[providence13]

The sword is assumed to have ranks in directed spell equal to the highest level of spell needed to make the sword.

I'll definitely check that out! That is real cool and fairly darn powerful.

[arnecooper]

The sword is assumed to have ranks in directed spell equal to the highest level of spell needed to make the sword.  This can can never be increased or decreased as the power of the firebolt is now inherient to the sword.  The character will always use the swords power to figure ranks in firebolt, but adds his directed spell catacory bonus (which represents how much skill the caster can use in casting/directing the spell).

That makes sense and it sounds like the direction that providence13 was going with his ideas. I'll have to find that book. Thank you!

[ahammer]

My question is do you have to be at full life to use it... sorry had to.

[providence13]

do you have to be at full life to use it...
Gauntlet??

[ahammer]

do you have to be at full life to use it...
Gauntlet??

link

[providence13]

link
Oh, never played it myself.

I was thinking of the old stand-up arcade game. The Valkyrie, "who needs food badly", shot swords.. out of her sword.. iirc. 

Welcome to the forums, ahammer!