Author Topic: RMU!  (Read 6109 times)

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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2022, 08:56:44 PM »
Now this is officially out how does compatibility go with RM2?

In what sense? And with which RM2? (Even the core books of RM2 were so heavy with optional rules that they usually ran longer than the core rules.)

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Has anyone kept using RM2 material but with RMU as core rules?

A number of conversions of RM2 material were done by fans using the playtest versions of RMU. There's some work involved, but RM2 supplements never were likely to have been written with the same set of rules used at your table, so it was always a case of "close enough" or modding. Conversion between RM editions is harder than between Call of Cthulhu editions (even after some significant changes to CoC 7th edition), but still should be fairly easy for the adventuring setting material. It can be a bit harder for things like professions, but those generally are due for some balance fixing, anyway.

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Does a +5 bonus in RM2 = +5 in RMU?

For maneuver rolls? Yes, in that you add five to the roll on your (open-ended) d100. For stats, no. Like RMSS/RMFRP, RMU adds stat bonuses rather than averaging them (easier math), so RM2 +5 to a stat is about +2 in RMU.

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How is the compatibility with other stat's, ranks, hits, RR, PP?

There has been a good deal of changes from RM2's core rules, though often using or refining options that appeared back in RM2. You will find much that is familiar, but also a good bit that is new. Spell-users, in particular, will notice a much greater sense of utility at low levels, with more spells and PPs. Unlike RM2, you won't *need* a spell multiplier before your spellcaster is valuable (and spell multiplier have been toned down accordingly).
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Offline luzbel

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2022, 03:05:12 AM »
I have a couple questions and pls dont try to read anything in them.
The cover in drivethru is the same cover that the physical book will have?
The interior art is in the same style?

Thx

Offline Thot

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2022, 06:19:43 AM »
The interior art is the same retro-80s style, yes.

I don't really like the stylistic choice, but i don't buy my RPG books for the art, so... shrug.

Offline PiXeL01

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2022, 07:12:14 AM »
I do believe good art makes a better product. The first thing I always do after buying a product is leaf through it to see the art.
I too was somewhat disappointed, but maybe I’m biased since my reference point lies with comp 1-3 and the old border books for RM products.

In the end your right, it’s the words that are most important but art though still holds meaning.
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Offline Thot

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2022, 08:42:04 AM »
Do I misread it, or is there in fact no cost associated with changing a species' lifespan in species creation?

Offline Silverthorn

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2022, 10:42:06 AM »
So pleased to finally have this on my hard drive. Looking forward to a deep dive soon. Art is inconsistent and the cover poor, but overall the art does not bother me. Compared to previous editions, it's a big improvement. Hopefully, so is the rules tidy-up.

Offline jdale

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2022, 04:02:33 PM »
The art will be the same in the printed version as the PDF version.

The amount you can pay for art in a product depends on the number of pieces of art, the price of the product, and the number of copies you can expect to sell. Considering that last factor, it should be obvious ICE doesn't have the same art budget that, say, Wizards of the Coast has. I love some of the art we got, and some of it is just ok, but it serves its purpose of adding color, breaking up the text, and improving readability and providing visual landmarks.

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Do I misread it, or is there in fact no cost associated with changing a species' lifespan in species creation?

That's correct. A shorter or longer lifespan provides no advantage for an individual character in the course of a normal campaign, it's just a narrative trait. It might provide an advantage or disadvantage for an entire race or culture on the scale of world-building, but that's a very different matter that doesn't need to be modeled as part of character creation.

If you want that lifespan difference to provide some kind of game mechanics advantage to individual characters then it would be sensible to charge DP for that advantage. E.g. if the race gets a more thorough education and starts with more Culture ranks, or they are immune to fear because they're so bored with life they aren't scared to die, those would be things that should cost DP.
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2022, 05:37:10 PM »
Lifespan also matters if aging magic is common enough to worry about. That certainly isn't the case in RM core, but individual settings may make it significant.
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Offline Thot

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2022, 12:11:38 AM »
[...]
If you want that lifespan difference to provide some kind of game mechanics advantage to individual characters then it would be sensible to charge DP for that advantage. E.g. if the race gets a more thorough education and starts with more Culture ranks, or they are immune to fear because they're so bored with life they aren't scared to die, those would be things that should cost DP.

Works for me. Thanks.

Offline Thot

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2022, 12:14:31 AM »
Lifespan also matters if aging magic is common enough to worry about. That certainly isn't the case in RM core, but individual settings may make it significant.

Yes, and there are certainly other (special) instances where lifespan would play in. For such game worlds or campaigns, I guess one could devise a Talent and a corresponding Flaw for Elves and the like that even each other out.

Offline Jon Joe

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2022, 04:48:02 AM »
Is there any official fillable character sheet somewhere?

Offline jdale

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2022, 09:00:09 AM »
Not official, but someone has already made a fillable version of the character sheet from the rulebook and posted it in the Discord. I will see if it can get to the Vault too.
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Offline luzbel

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2022, 08:12:28 AM »
I dont want to live in any universe where rolemaster doesnt have a shock bolt attack table.... Thats a reeeeeaaaaal heresy.
 :-\

Offline Jon Joe

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2022, 12:58:01 PM »
p.194?

Offline Mordenkainen

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2022, 05:01:22 PM »
The art is about the same quality as in the original RM2 and RMSS. Which was low for industry standards at the time and remains so.
Stylistically it doesn't hold together, though. There needed to be clear direction to make it cohere better. Some pieces have that 3.x era feel while some are more like 1980s pieces, colorised.
My main criticism is that you can't just add 1/8 page colour pieces to a B&W page the way you could with B&W art. The colour art completely breaks up the flow of the page, leading to a 90s-early 2000s "slap some clip art on a word doc - we r multimedia now!" feel.
This could have been avoided by adding some colour elements to the page layout, such as headers, page numbers, borders and so on, just as an example of a simple approach to a fix.
Paying a pro graphic artist for design advice would have paid dividends in my opinion.
Many RPG buyers say they don't care about layout and art, but the top games walk off the shelves partly because they excel in this area. And it doesn't need a huge budget. It needs someone to know that it matters and to put the effort in, getting pro help as necessary.

Offline EltonJ

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2022, 05:27:44 PM »
For me, Art is important.  From seeing the cover, it reminds me of something a high schooler did.  More like a Guild Companion cover than something I'd buy.  Although something good is happening because it's a Gold level seller.


Offline Amano

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2022, 08:02:20 PM »
For me, art isn’t particularly important in an RPG rules book. I will say I preferred the cover art for the beta books.

Offline MisterK

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2022, 01:29:51 AM »
I have a mixed view on that particular topic - art is important in that
- it provides space in the flow of text that allows the reader to breathe somehow, and
- it provides atmosphere (much more efficiently than, say, a piece of fiction)

The first point can be achieved with almost any kind of art (even placeholders). However, getting any kind of art will likely make a mess of the second point and eventually detract from the reading if the art clashes too much with the text. thus, the problem often comes from the second point.

I don't think that colour is necessary - you can have very interesting and atmospheric B&W art, which gives you the option to keep the printing in B/W completely, which I assume is a cost reduction. Off the top of my head, there are a number of B/W art pieces in other RPGs I found very tasteful and atmospheric (for example, David Interdonato's art in Arrowflight, some of William O'Connor's art in Aria Worlds and Ars Magica 3, and even most of the art in Apocalypse world which fits the atmosphere perfectly and was probably derived from stock art). Note that Arrowflight is also a good example of how mixing art can have a negative effect overall - the various sources clash completely and seem to be pulling in different atmospheric directions.

Adding colour to ill-chosen art is not a saving grace. On the other hand, using colour in a coherent way can provide wonderful results, and one of my fondest memories of "colour art defining an atmosphere" is DiTeerlizzi's art for Planescape. This kind of art direction is probably out of reach for ICE, though.

Basically, art direction (what kind of art, the atmosphere it must provide, the overall artistic consistency if several artists are involved - remember CCGs where some cards had gorgeous art while others made you cringe, what each piece must be about to fit with the surrounding text) is the critical point here. I believe limiting the number of artists involved is preferable (and there is obviously a trade-off between reducing the number of artists and respecting deadlines), and, given the time it took for RMU to hit the shelves, ICE was actually in a favourable position here as long as they could procure art early enough.

But, to be honest, I was never particularly impressed with Rolemaster interior art, and it never struck me as something the editor deemed essential. It was obviously partly a question of budget, but I don't think most of the indie games have more budget than ICE does, and some of them are really good anyway. I think it was also part of the mindset: the RM rules come from a minimalistic foundation (d100 OE, open skill bonus, roll high) but since every single situation seemed to require its own custom mini-mechanism or tweak, the rule text becomes bloated and an incredible amount of effort goes into trying to stabilise that text and make all pieces more or less fit together. And since a limited budget implies a limited amount of effort, art direction was taking a back seat.

I cannot comment on RMU art directly (I don't plan on buying it, since the game rules and my tastes are moving in very different directions), but DTRPG provides a low-res version of the cover art and, well, I can't say I'm impressed. Aiming for a more stripped down cover art (L5R 3rd, 4th, or even beta 5th edition core books, for instance) would have worked better. But that's just me.

Offline Thot

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2022, 02:03:28 AM »
[...]Although something good is happening because it's a Gold level seller.

I think that is because RoleMaster is just a name with quite some power in the industry. And also, the ruleset IS an actual improvement on the previous versions.

A cover that is more agreeable to the masses might make sense for the print version, though.

Offline Jon Joe

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Re: RMU!
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2022, 03:48:27 AM »
I wish I could find a "character creation summary chart" in the Core Law, as seen in almost every other trpg nowadays.

It's silly but I feel a bit lost regarding character creation. ^^'