Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: Thot on December 02, 2022, 12:46:36 PM
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Only a few hours now!
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YES!
Where do we go to find it? DriveThru? Or will it be on the web site?
Do we have a time of release? Is that in GMT?
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Dragonmeet opens at 9 am UTC in London...so if we have not jinxed things with our questions, that sounds like a plausible time for things to be released at DriverThruRPG.
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It is available for purchase now. I'm going through it right now.
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No hardbacks?
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No hardbacks?
And if there are hardbacks, will they be properly bound and high quality hardbacks as opposed to the garbage put out by DriveThruRPG.com?
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And it's out! https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/416633/Rolemaster-Core-Law-RMU?manufacturers_id=461
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Bought!
Now to think of a way to print it with Arms Law separate.
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Downloaded within 10 mins of discovering this!
Thank you Nicholas and everyone else involved, for seeing it through.
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At last. Great. Are we going to have a physical version?
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I also bought it right away. I'm really loving it. As someone who's mainly played RM2 and read bits and pieces of RMFRP it feels like the best of both worlds and definitely the most approachable version of the game, well, ever.
I have a few minor issues with the system but nothing that would actively detract from my enjoyment of the game. Just feeling really happy about the first RPG I ever played getting a new sleek edition just as I was getting into the game again.
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At last. Great. Are we going to have a physical version?
I suppose they'll wait a a while and see what errata will be pointed out by the playerbase before they offer a PoD version.
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I suppose they'll wait a a while and see what errata will be pointed out by the playerbase before they offer a PoD version.
That's right. There will certainly be a print version as well, but we'd rather catch as much errata as possible before anything is printed. PDFs on the other hand you will get an updated version of after we make any necessary fixes.
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An enormous thank you to all those who worked on this, land brought it to fruition. One heck of a birthday present, let me tell ya. =D
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I suppose they'll wait a a while and see what errata will be pointed out by the playerbase before they offer a PoD version.
That's right. There will certainly be a print version as well, but we'd rather catch as much errata as possible before anything is printed. PDFs on the other hand you will get an updated version of after we make any necessary fixes.
Well that just makes total and complete sense. :)
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Congratulations to the development team for reaching this milestone! :)
Now I must go forth and absorb the changes.
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I suppose they'll wait a a while and see what errata will be pointed out by the playerbase before they offer a PoD version.
That's right. There will certainly be a print version as well, but we'd rather catch as much errata as possible before anything is printed. PDFs on the other hand you will get an updated version of after we make any necessary fixes.
Sooooo....any release dates/estimates for the other books? :-) And FGU ruleset. :-D
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I'm going to wait for a while before I buy RMU.
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Now this is officially out how does compatibility go with RM2?
Has anyone kept using RM2 material but with RMU as core rules?
Does a +5 bonus in RM2 = +5 in RMU?
How is the compatibility with other stat's, ranks, hits, RR, PP?
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I got it.... Now for the review work.
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Now this is officially out how does compatibility go with RM2?
In what sense? And with which RM2? (Even the core books of RM2 were so heavy with optional rules that they usually ran longer than the core rules.)
Has anyone kept using RM2 material but with RMU as core rules?
A number of conversions of RM2 material were done by fans using the playtest versions of RMU. There's some work involved, but RM2 supplements never were likely to have been written with the same set of rules used at your table, so it was always a case of "close enough" or modding. Conversion between RM editions is harder than between Call of Cthulhu editions (even after some significant changes to CoC 7th edition), but still should be fairly easy for the adventuring setting material. It can be a bit harder for things like professions, but those generally are due for some balance fixing, anyway.
Does a +5 bonus in RM2 = +5 in RMU?
For maneuver rolls? Yes, in that you add five to the roll on your (open-ended) d100. For stats, no. Like RMSS/RMFRP, RMU adds stat bonuses rather than averaging them (easier math), so RM2 +5 to a stat is about +2 in RMU.
How is the compatibility with other stat's, ranks, hits, RR, PP?
There has been a good deal of changes from RM2's core rules, though often using or refining options that appeared back in RM2. You will find much that is familiar, but also a good bit that is new. Spell-users, in particular, will notice a much greater sense of utility at low levels, with more spells and PPs. Unlike RM2, you won't *need* a spell multiplier before your spellcaster is valuable (and spell multiplier have been toned down accordingly).
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I have a couple questions and pls dont try to read anything in them.
The cover in drivethru is the same cover that the physical book will have?
The interior art is in the same style?
Thx
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The interior art is the same retro-80s style, yes.
I don't really like the stylistic choice, but i don't buy my RPG books for the art, so... shrug.
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I do believe good art makes a better product. The first thing I always do after buying a product is leaf through it to see the art.
I too was somewhat disappointed, but maybe I’m biased since my reference point lies with comp 1-3 and the old border books for RM products.
In the end your right, it’s the words that are most important but art though still holds meaning.
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Do I misread it, or is there in fact no cost associated with changing a species' lifespan in species creation?
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So pleased to finally have this on my hard drive. Looking forward to a deep dive soon. Art is inconsistent and the cover poor, but overall the art does not bother me. Compared to previous editions, it's a big improvement. Hopefully, so is the rules tidy-up.
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The art will be the same in the printed version as the PDF version.
The amount you can pay for art in a product depends on the number of pieces of art, the price of the product, and the number of copies you can expect to sell. Considering that last factor, it should be obvious ICE doesn't have the same art budget that, say, Wizards of the Coast has. I love some of the art we got, and some of it is just ok, but it serves its purpose of adding color, breaking up the text, and improving readability and providing visual landmarks.
Do I misread it, or is there in fact no cost associated with changing a species' lifespan in species creation?
That's correct. A shorter or longer lifespan provides no advantage for an individual character in the course of a normal campaign, it's just a narrative trait. It might provide an advantage or disadvantage for an entire race or culture on the scale of world-building, but that's a very different matter that doesn't need to be modeled as part of character creation.
If you want that lifespan difference to provide some kind of game mechanics advantage to individual characters then it would be sensible to charge DP for that advantage. E.g. if the race gets a more thorough education and starts with more Culture ranks, or they are immune to fear because they're so bored with life they aren't scared to die, those would be things that should cost DP.
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Lifespan also matters if aging magic is common enough to worry about. That certainly isn't the case in RM core, but individual settings may make it significant.
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[...]
If you want that lifespan difference to provide some kind of game mechanics advantage to individual characters then it would be sensible to charge DP for that advantage. E.g. if the race gets a more thorough education and starts with more Culture ranks, or they are immune to fear because they're so bored with life they aren't scared to die, those would be things that should cost DP.
Works for me. Thanks.
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Lifespan also matters if aging magic is common enough to worry about. That certainly isn't the case in RM core, but individual settings may make it significant.
Yes, and there are certainly other (special) instances where lifespan would play in. For such game worlds or campaigns, I guess one could devise a Talent and a corresponding Flaw for Elves and the like that even each other out.
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Is there any official fillable character sheet somewhere?
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Not official, but someone has already made a fillable version of the character sheet from the rulebook and posted it in the Discord. I will see if it can get to the Vault too.
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I dont want to live in any universe where rolemaster doesnt have a shock bolt attack table.... Thats a reeeeeaaaaal heresy.
:-\
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p.194?
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The art is about the same quality as in the original RM2 and RMSS. Which was low for industry standards at the time and remains so.
Stylistically it doesn't hold together, though. There needed to be clear direction to make it cohere better. Some pieces have that 3.x era feel while some are more like 1980s pieces, colorised.
My main criticism is that you can't just add 1/8 page colour pieces to a B&W page the way you could with B&W art. The colour art completely breaks up the flow of the page, leading to a 90s-early 2000s "slap some clip art on a word doc - we r multimedia now!" feel.
This could have been avoided by adding some colour elements to the page layout, such as headers, page numbers, borders and so on, just as an example of a simple approach to a fix.
Paying a pro graphic artist for design advice would have paid dividends in my opinion.
Many RPG buyers say they don't care about layout and art, but the top games walk off the shelves partly because they excel in this area. And it doesn't need a huge budget. It needs someone to know that it matters and to put the effort in, getting pro help as necessary.
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For me, Art is important. From seeing the cover, it reminds me of something a high schooler did. More like a Guild Companion cover than something I'd buy. Although something good is happening because it's a Gold level seller.
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For me, art isn’t particularly important in an RPG rules book. I will say I preferred the cover art for the beta books.
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I have a mixed view on that particular topic - art is important in that
- it provides space in the flow of text that allows the reader to breathe somehow, and
- it provides atmosphere (much more efficiently than, say, a piece of fiction)
The first point can be achieved with almost any kind of art (even placeholders). However, getting any kind of art will likely make a mess of the second point and eventually detract from the reading if the art clashes too much with the text. thus, the problem often comes from the second point.
I don't think that colour is necessary - you can have very interesting and atmospheric B&W art, which gives you the option to keep the printing in B/W completely, which I assume is a cost reduction. Off the top of my head, there are a number of B/W art pieces in other RPGs I found very tasteful and atmospheric (for example, David Interdonato's art in Arrowflight, some of William O'Connor's art in Aria Worlds and Ars Magica 3, and even most of the art in Apocalypse world which fits the atmosphere perfectly and was probably derived from stock art). Note that Arrowflight is also a good example of how mixing art can have a negative effect overall - the various sources clash completely and seem to be pulling in different atmospheric directions.
Adding colour to ill-chosen art is not a saving grace. On the other hand, using colour in a coherent way can provide wonderful results, and one of my fondest memories of "colour art defining an atmosphere" is DiTeerlizzi's art for Planescape. This kind of art direction is probably out of reach for ICE, though.
Basically, art direction (what kind of art, the atmosphere it must provide, the overall artistic consistency if several artists are involved - remember CCGs where some cards had gorgeous art while others made you cringe, what each piece must be about to fit with the surrounding text) is the critical point here. I believe limiting the number of artists involved is preferable (and there is obviously a trade-off between reducing the number of artists and respecting deadlines), and, given the time it took for RMU to hit the shelves, ICE was actually in a favourable position here as long as they could procure art early enough.
But, to be honest, I was never particularly impressed with Rolemaster interior art, and it never struck me as something the editor deemed essential. It was obviously partly a question of budget, but I don't think most of the indie games have more budget than ICE does, and some of them are really good anyway. I think it was also part of the mindset: the RM rules come from a minimalistic foundation (d100 OE, open skill bonus, roll high) but since every single situation seemed to require its own custom mini-mechanism or tweak, the rule text becomes bloated and an incredible amount of effort goes into trying to stabilise that text and make all pieces more or less fit together. And since a limited budget implies a limited amount of effort, art direction was taking a back seat.
I cannot comment on RMU art directly (I don't plan on buying it, since the game rules and my tastes are moving in very different directions), but DTRPG provides a low-res version of the cover art and, well, I can't say I'm impressed. Aiming for a more stripped down cover art (L5R 3rd, 4th, or even beta 5th edition core books, for instance) would have worked better. But that's just me.
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[...]Although something good is happening because it's a Gold level seller.
I think that is because RoleMaster is just a name with quite some power in the industry. And also, the ruleset IS an actual improvement on the previous versions.
A cover that is more agreeable to the masses might make sense for the print version, though.
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I wish I could find a "character creation summary chart" in the Core Law, as seen in almost every other trpg nowadays.
It's silly but I feel a bit lost regarding character creation. ^^'
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I wish I could find a "character creation summary chart" in the Core Law, as seen in almost every other trpg nowadays.
It's silly but I feel a bit lost regarding character creation. ^^'
Yes, that would make things easier. Just one page summaring it all one neat picture. Any Chance this can be added before print?
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There is a checklist on p. 17, and then the book details each of those steps on the following pages. Were you wanting something more detailed than that?
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Yes. Something like the "Character Creation Quick Reference" you can find in every White Wolf product for example. (And in a lot of other games from other companies actually.)
The checklist p.17 is not detailed enough (culture points, profesionnal skills, knacks, and so on, are not mentioned).
Or maybe let's say that the steps 2, 3, 4 could be more 'checklisted'. Currently it's not that helpful to easily summarize "where am I in the character creation process?"
Though, okay, this checklist is here and I will use it, for sure. Thank you Hurin.
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You don't have to follow a set order, though. Currently, I'm starting with race (because I'm doing up a character of each race), then rolling stats, then picking profession, then culture. At least, usually in that order. Sometimes, I know earlier which culture I'll associate with this character because it fits (the Sea-Kral is going to be Mariner, I can tell you now). I agree that a more detailed checklist should appear, but it should also come with text that makes it clear that the order is (mostly) flexible. If I were just creating a character to play myself, I'd probably roll stats first, and decide what kind of person I was dealing with based on that. If the campaign is about the town watch in a major city, we might all start with the decision that the Culture would be Cosmopolitan for everyone. You may even wish to buy your "essential" skill first when spending DP, then consider what talents might be purchasable with what's left before petitioning the GM. Many systems do require a set order of character creation steps (and RM certainly should offer a default order of doing so), but RM is pretty flexible, especially now that DP do not require knowing stats first. It would be entirely possible to roll stats *last* (okay, not quite last... you'd have to do your stat adjustments after the rolls). Not advisable, but possible, and maybe something a group might want to do if trying to break themselves of too much min-maxing.
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Hello! Are there any campaign modules planned for RMU? We're coming back to RM after years off and would be easier for us to get into it with a pre made campaign of some sort.
If not, how much tweaking would it take to use some RMSS/FRP material?
Also, I pray spell law is not too far off. Keep up the momentum! :)
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The latest word was that Spell Law might be about a month away.
There is at least one module (Brian Hanson's The Priest King of Shade) in the pipe.
It would not be too difficult to use the new rules with earlier modules, IMHO; the stats in general are not that different.
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Are their plans to incorporate Arcane back into the system with RMU through its own companion?
Will the Warrior Mage make a a reappearance and will there be a Essence Companion?
Are their any plans to introduce a proper Necromancer?
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Are their plans to incorporate Arcane back into the system with RMU through its own companion?
Will the Warrior Mage make a a reappearance and will there be a Essence Companion?
Are their any plans to introduce a proper Necromancer?
I'd definitely like to see Arcane updated, and a new Warrior Mage. Whether there is a new Essence Companion or we organize them differently is undecided. I had some discussions relating to necromancers I need to catch up on still.
But none of those things qualify as plans at this point. What's planned at this moment is just Core, Spell Law, Treasure Law, Creature Law I & II, and the Character Companion.
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I am going through the book and am curious why random stat generation was kept, even in the stat point buy model. It seems, counter intuitive, if players are using a point buy system, what is the point of the random maximum? particularly since the sentence in the point buy section states that it allows players to model their character.
Is this going to be expanded upon in the character law book?
And just out of curiosity, I cannot find anywhere in the rules (and I can't recall any place in the old rules) where the actual stat ever made any difference. All that has ever mattered was the bonus. Is there any reason for having the stat (1-100) rather than just having the bonus (since that is all I ever recall mattering)?
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I am going through the book and am curious why random stat generation was kept, even in the stat point buy model. It seems, counter intuitive, if players are using a point buy system, what is the point of the random maximum? particularly since the sentence in the point buy section states that it allows players to model their character.
Is this going to be expanded upon in the character law book?
And just out of curiosity, I cannot find anywhere in the rules (and I can't recall any place in the old rules) where the actual stat ever made any difference. All that has ever mattered was the bonus. Is there any reason for having the stat (1-100) rather than just having the bonus (since that is all I ever recall mattering)?
Well potential increases between levels are still rather stat relevant. If you were to use a -15 - +15 stat it would make those oh so lovely gains tricky.
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Stats do not, in and of themselves, ever make a difference. Only the stat bonuses matter. But stats were retained because they give people a better idea of how the character compares to others (of their race anyway), and because quantifying stats with negative values (as you would if you only used bonuses, whereas for stats they are positive but below-average values) did not go over well.
Random potentials are there for balance in case you want to use both rolled and point-buy options in the same campaign; in that case the potentials need to be equitable. I think if you only use point-buy, it's fine to toss potentials entirely, but some people wanted to mix the two options.
If you want to go further and toss stats entirely, and just use bonuses, it makes point-buy easier, and stat gains can just be fixed at a +1 bonus every time.
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I’d slap and swap the Black Reaver page for the cover in an instant for the Print version for that Wow factor.
One could then have the old cover as the fly leaf page before the ToC.
+1 for that.
[...]Although something good is happening because it's a Gold level seller.
I think that is because RoleMaster is just a name with quite some power in the industry. And also, the ruleset IS an actual improvement on the previous versions.
A cover that is more agreeable to the masses might make sense for the print version, though.
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What ever happened to the Beta covers. Those were great
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I’d slap and swap the Black Reaver page for the cover in an instant for the Print version for that Wow factor.
I honestly think that would help with sales.
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After a couple of weeks with the RMU Core Law, the anticipation of getting Spell Law so we can play the game keeps building. Coming back to the Rolemaster after having played other games since the RMU beta, the wealth of tactical choices in RMU combat is incredible. I am glad to say that the majority of the issues found during the beta have been handled with a lot of grace, and very few issues remain. Way better than both RMC and RMFRP is no weak achievement for the new edition.
From another angle, I think the RMU might be tough to grasp for a new player. The many detailed rules make sense when you dig into the details, but the downside is that many rules are mentioned just once, and it takes quite some page flipping to find all relevant entries for things needed to run the game. In quite a few cases, critical aspects of the rule are not explicitly mentioned but can be understood only by carefully checking an example. It might be that the long time to develop RMU means the gaming groups of the designers have become so familiar with the rules they lost sight of the perspective of the newbie user. The rules would be much easier to use if the rules text was amended with the explanations given here on the forum. This is a criticism that would apply to the previous edition also.
For RM users that hesitate about if you should jump on the wagon and switch to RMU, I think you are missing something out if you don’t join. Everyone has their house rules at the gaming table built on the many options presented in RM2 and RMSS. Additionally, you might have plenty of material tuned for your gaming world. The good news is that RMU has built-in core mechanics for building balanced races, cultures and professions, so you can take your stuff and reapply it using those building tools. The balance of some elements might change a bit, but the advantages are obvious of getting your modifications tuned to the rest of the rules.
As for the pictures, I think the acquisition of art generally has been successful. Rolemaster has never been top of the pack when it comes to pictures, but in RMU, I, in most cases, feel inspired to use the scene as inspiration for an adventure. As a personal opinion, I think the pictures on pages 127, 135 and page 175 are in a much different art style, I don’t think fit with the others, but it is no biggie.
So why are the images in RMU getting such a negative reaction? I think the major reason is that the race pictures are among the weakest in the book. Every player will need to read those pages when they make a character, so it is safe to bet these pictures get more scrutiny than the rest of the pictures. Unfortunately, they are IMO not up to the task. The flat-looking Avinarc on page 22 is the first race people will see...probably the first picture a new player will look at since it is the first race, and it is IMO incredibly bad. The artist was obviously not up for the task of not using a profile picture, and the result is so bad that I have amateur friends making better attempts to draw something similar. Another very weak entry is the Idiyva on page 26 which is both tastelessly sexualized and also suffers from the flat look that makes it look very bad. The scale of the failure of the Idiyva picture becomes obvious if you think about the many RMFRP books that have a male Idiyva that looks a magnitude better. Many of the others, like the Nycamerith, are blander than outright bad, but a result is a number of pages that gives an impression of RMU having weak and uninspiring images that don’t fit with the general theme of showing scenes from an adventure that is used in the rest of the book.
Turning to the cover picture, it IMO is a bit old-fashioned for a modern roleplaying game, but with a mission statement of uniting old Rolemaster users, you can argue it is an honest cover. There is also a tradition of having an adventuring group on the cover of Rolemaster books with some nonhuman characters. On the other hand, there is also a tradition to show badass monsters on the cover page of RM books. The idea to instead use the Black Reaver as the cover picture is a cool idea, and I think it would help to attract interest in the game. The current cover could still be used on page 1 inside the book like it does today, and if there is any image that deserves to be featured an extra time, it would be the Black Reaver.
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Random potentials are there for balance in case you want to use both rolled and point-buy options in the same campaign; in that case the potentials need to be equitable. I think if you only use point-buy, it's fine to toss potentials entirely, but some people wanted to mix the two options.
Hello,
I play with a group that is averse to random stat generation. They have played RMSS with the point buy system for a very long time. Are there any plans to create a system that allows for generating stats both temp and potential 100 percent with points?
In my experience I have never run into a game group that mixes random stats with a point buy system for any game system. The GM and players usually want everyone on an even playing field.
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Personally I have played with the thought of the GM generates a set of stats and then hand those to their players.
Either that or perhaps or use some similar as previous editions where you got maybe 700 pts. 1-90 was 1pt, 91-95 was 2 pt, and 96-100 was 3.
I just looked at FRP and that was even more expensive getting 100.
Also, potentials were always random was a chance of always getting a potential of 100.
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Speaking of 100, I have always wondered, based on RM2/C where your temporary got go down, how interesting it would be to have a campaign where either all your stats or say five or even three had a potential of 100, the rest 90.
Adventurers are supposed to be the cream of the crop or at least some of the fittest or smartest people around. That or Demi-gods or infused by the gods/powerful being/ritual.
Something like:
Potentials: 100 x3, 90 x3, 85 x4
Temporaries: 20 x2, 40 x2, 60 x2, 80 x2, 90 x2 (90 temps cannot be paired with Pots of 85 and must be set in prime stats)
I’m not sure whether this would be fun, even with RM2/C’s stat gain rolls on all stats
Addition: I’m thinking to use pots of 100,98,96,94,92,90, 85 x4
And the above temps in my next campaign and then see how it goes.
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Houserule: Just buy stat bonuses directly, and don't worry about potentials. Give out a certain number of direct stat bonuses, and allow players to assign them as they want. Then at every two or three level ups, give them a few more points to buy.
E.g. I give my players a standard array of stat bonuses: 10, 8, 6, 5, 3, 2, 0, 0, -3, -6. They assign these at character creation. Every third level, they get +3 more to distribute as they want. We don't worry about potentials nor do we need percentile stats.
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Just like any other game, this is your game. Rolemaster is easy to mod so make the game your own. Don't get lost in complaining about this and that. Take what you like, throw out what you don't and just enjoy the game. I feel too many people waste too much time complaining instead of just playing the game.
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Thinking of stats. Since DPs are set, what is the point of even having temp and potential stats at this point. It seems that it would make more sense to just have the players have there stat bonuses be what they are. and if they take some kind of damage, then they just get a penalty to the stat bonus (since the numbers really dont mean anything may as well dispense with those too).
I seems that things that dont matter should simply be removed from the game. Keeping things for aesthetics or because "people like them" doesn't really make much sense.
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I play with a group that is averse to random stat generation. They have played RMSS with the point buy system for a very long time. Are there any plans to create a system that allows for generating stats both temp and potential 100 percent with points?
If your group wants to continue using RMSS style point buy, you only need to adjust the table to the RMU scale to continue to use it. If you need help with the math there are bound to be people on the forum that can help.
Myself, I have used the RMSS method for years but decided against porting the table to RMU since I am a bit tired of the sweet spots of the point-buy table.
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There is also a whole Discord subchannel discussion about stat options, if you are interested in that.
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There is also a whole Discord subchannel discussion about stat options, if you are interested in that.
Could you provide a link.
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I'm not well versed in Discord, but I think this was it:
https://discord.com/channels/737958249936060416/1048932801531088947
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Point buy of potentials at the superior power level seems to be about 57 points. Just bear in mind that getting to allocate potentials is going to give an advantage over rolling them. So maybe it would be more appropriate to use a lower total, like 50.
I suspect you could also just use RMSS's fixed potentials option as written although I haven't compared the results.
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Point buy of potentials at the superior power level seems to be about 57 points. Just bear in mind that getting to allocate potentials is going to give an advantage over rolling them. So maybe it would be more appropriate to use a lower total, like 50.
I suspect you could also just use RMSS's fixed potentials option as written although I haven't compared the results.
Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking about trying the RMSS fixed mods to see what I come up with. I'll have to house rule character creation to get my game group to try RMU.
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What ever happened to the Beta covers. Those were great
The beta covers had borrowed art made by the same artist.
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To bad, I liked the art and made me thirsty to see a new set of awesome art for the new system.
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To bad, I liked the art and made me thirsty to see a new set of awesome art for the new system.
Indeed, the covers of the beta products definitely made a better impression. :/
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I think it is a fresh perspective. Most of it is fine, some of it is really nice and just a few inlays are not that good. Art is a big expense and I think the compromise is great. Everything in one style. It is all color. Bold move to not hide the digital production and most important of all: it is contextual! It is specifically RMU. That is just great.
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Any idea when a conversion document for RMU to Shadow World will be released? That would likely go a long way to get people already playing to switch over.
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In general, I find it the best approach to recreate characters between systems instead of applying formulas to convert them.
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That’s not exactly what I meant. I don’t believe you can effectively convert a character from RMSS to RMU without rebuilding them from level 1. DPs are significantly different as are the skills. Also the classes are similar but not the same. And Core Law and Spell Law beta sadly left out some core classes like the Warrior Mage and Armsmaster (I’ll never fully understand why but it doesn’t matter), along with their spell lists (another WTF). Though RMSS and RMU appear to be compatible they are vastly dissimilar games with respect to character creation.
When will a Shadow World conversion be done. It’d be interesting to see the Shadow World races and creatures and some of the NPCs done for RMU to see how they look in the new system.
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That’s not exactly what I meant. I don’t believe you can effectively convert a character from RMSS to RMU without rebuilding them from level 1. DPs are significantly different as are the skills.
You can quite easily use any material from the previous editions with RMU. The skill lists might be different, but it does not matter at the gaming table if a certain NPC has a different name for the same skill. If we are speaking of combat NPC from earlier editions, they will not have paperwork for the new dodge and block actions, but it is trivial just to give the NPC some suitable number of ranks and bonuses.
The same goes with power points where RMU characters will have power points, not like core RM2 rules but more like the options in the companions...just determine a reasonable number of power points and start using the NPC. If you are using RMSS/RMFRP your NPC will have approximately the right number of PP.
Also the classes are similar but not the same. And Core Law and Spell Law beta sadly left out some core classes like the Warrior Mage and Armsmaster (I’ll never fully understand why but it doesn’t matter), along with their spell lists (another WTF). Though RMSS and RMU appear to be compatible they are vastly dissimilar games with respect to character creation.
These professions were never core professions in any previous editions. If the companions are redone for RMU, they will be included. In the meantime, you can use RMU's build profession rules to recreate them for your game.
When will a Shadow World conversion be done. It’d be interesting to see the Shadow World races and creatures and some of the NPCs done for RMU to see how they look in the new system.
You can use RMU to recreate any Shadow World races and creatures. The new edition includes full rules for building your own races and cultures. The likelihood that we get old Shadow World products restated for RMU increases a lot if you start posting samples of converting efforts on the forum. The likelihood we get new Shadow World products is also quite likely affected by the activity on the Shadow World part of the forum.
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You make my point exactly. I don’t usually purchase RPGs to do all the work myself.
I know that I CAN rewrite the rules and rework old materials but I believe that’s the job of the game company selling a product.
It would be much better for the company to provide those items considering that it’d make rather the game company for a consistent experience. This is 10 years in the making with the last Betas essentially completed over 3 years ago. The idea that the conversion work couldn’t have been completed in that time is silly, mainly since it’s THEIR main game world.
Yes you’re correct the Armsmaster and Warrior Mage were presented in companions but guess what, so was the paladin. These are classes that have been around through 3 iterations of the game and to claim “it’s not core” takes some deep excusism. I’d be surprised if any significant numbers of rolemaster players would say “no, we don’t need an essence and mentalism version of a combat semi”.
I want to see the game succeed beyond just being a book some people buy to add to their shelf collection. I’d like to see the game move forward to the point that groups can either 1) convert their existing RM campaigns to RMU or 2) even better see new gamers pick up RMU and run games. I don’t see how it gets there with the current approach. But that’s a different discussion.
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Pdf copies seems to be flying off the digital shelves though. I'm looking forward to the release of Spell Law pdf and physical copies of both Core Law and Spell Law.
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Yes. Appears it’s selling good on Drivethru. But who’s buying it. I did but I’m not playing it. I suspect the same could be said for a lot of people. That’s what in business we call a dead sale. It doesn’t lead to additional sales.
What will ultimately determine future sales will be
1) will players convert from RMSS/RMC to RMU.
2) will new players pick up and play RMSS/RMC
If the answer is more no than yes, then sales won’t grow and it’ll be a nice shelf book but not something that will grow a gaming community. Maybe that was never the aim, I don’t know what the owners/developers were shooting for. Maybe codifying house rules was the end goal and maybe there was never a goal of growing the game in hopes of having a thriving community of players. It seems to me (my personal opinion) that this was a club project aimed at pleasing some club members rather than relaunching the game with a bigger audience in mind.
Maybe the developers can discuss what their end goal was.
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Their end goal is releasing RMU books, first Core Law, then Spell Law, then more. We're at the beginning of the RMU adventure, way too soon to start digging its grave.
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Maybe that was never the aim, I don’t know what the owners/developers were shooting for.
The above made me think of this:
“And he dreamed the dream of all those who publish books, which was to have so much gold in your pockets that you would have to employ two people just to hold your trousers up.” - Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Sometimes goals are simpler than you think.
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It's understood that it's not going to be fully playable until the whole system is available. But also that it's not practical, for multiple reasons, to release them all simultaneously.
I'm not too worried about needing people to hold my trousers up. :)
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I'm not too worried about needing people to hold my trousers up. :)
Yeah, but what a First World Problem to have, huh?
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As problems go, I could live with it. :)
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Profit is healthy, means more content and books for us, I also suspect ICE cares for their rpg systems and their fans, all reasons for creating and publishing RMU and more.
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As problems go, I could live with it. :)
That's what I love about you, you're always ready to take one for the team. ;D