Topic: Time for an RMU Forum?

[Hurin]

Might it be time now to create an RMU section of the Rolemaster forums here? It looks like we only have RM2 and RMSS/FRP.

I'd like the RMU Beta boards to remain as an archive if possible, just because there were many good discussions there. But either way, I think we also now need an official RMU section here.

[nash]

I was under the impression that Rolemaster is for RMU.  The subforums are for RMSS and RM2?

[MisterK]

I would second the motion. I  work on the assumption that the Rolemaster forum is for questions pertaining to RM in general (e.g. use of Fate points in game, classification of spells into realms of magic, lethality of combat and how to enforce or modulate it, how to resolve overland travel, that kind of things). Each subforum is dedicated to a game in particular and should only include answers pertaining to that game, except if the OP asked for insights into other editions of RM.

I must admit that going into the RMSS or RM2 subforum and reading a thread where half the answers refer to RMU is a bit irking. I would rather it be segregated into its own subforum, to clearly indicate that it is one RM version among others. Right now, it feels a bit like the latest edition of the Game That Must Not Be Mentioned: a sparkling new solution to a problem some of us never had.

To be very clear, I am not opposed to RMU intrinsically. I will likely never use it, but the fact that it exists makes the community more vibrant, not less. However, trying to push it forward at every opportunity *does* feel like someone is trying to sell me a new SUV when I just came in asking for advice on how to properly maintain my trusty old compact car.

And putting all RMU discussions in a separate subforum would be a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

[Spectre771]

I would second the motion. I  work on the assumption that the Rolemaster forum is for questions pertaining to RM in general (e.g. use of Fate points in game, classification of spells into realms of magic, lethality of combat and how to enforce or modulate it, how to resolve overland travel, that kind of things)...

Agreed. I do the same thing.  I always saw the Rolemaster section as anything in general about RM with topics that could apply to any of the individual game systems.  We have HARP, SpaceMaster, RMC/2, RMFRP/SS, adding RMU fits the forum nicely.  The RMU Beta threads could be moved into the RMU Board. (If one is created.)

[pastaav]

I don't think a separate RMU forum on the same level as RMC/RM2 and RMFRP is a good idea at all. Possible buyers might visit the forum to see if there is a community that support the game. The idea that RMU is just one RM version among others is not the message Ironcrown need to spread if they want a viable business.

My thought is that the Rolemaster node below Systems & Settings need to be renamed to Rolemaster United. Some RM2-fanatics might not like it, but new material can only be RMU since it is the only RM edition where Ironcrown have full IP-control.

If you want to support Rolemaster going forward you need to buy the new books. Afterward it is your choice if you switch to RMU or just adapt mechanics into your existing game, but clinging to idea that edition to unify Rolemaster is just a new edition do IMHO ignore reality.

[rdanhenry]

Perhaps a new RMU forum at the same level as the current "Rolemaster" forum, with the "Rolemaster" forum renamed to "Rolemaster Legacy Editions"?

[Spectre771]

Perhaps a new RMU forum at the same level as the current "Rolemaster" forum, with the "Rolemaster" forum renamed to "Rolemaster Legacy Editions"?

That's a very good idea.  It sets a distinction between the past and the present.

[EltonJ]

I wouldn't mind an RMU forum.   I think it will be awesome.

[Cory Magel]

Perhaps a new RMU forum at the same level as the current "Rolemaster" forum, with the "Rolemaster" forum renamed to "Rolemaster Legacy Editions"?

That's a very good idea.  It sets a distinction between the past and the present.

Marketing-wise I think that's a good idea.  Not sure the many, many RM2 and RMSS version fans would love it, but it's not like it's really that big a deal.

[pastaav]

Perhaps a new RMU forum at the same level as the current "Rolemaster" forum, with the "Rolemaster" forum renamed to "Rolemaster Legacy Editions"?

What would that achieve except to undermine the concept that RMU will be unifying umbrella for all RM users?

Considiering the state of the IP that is the only commercial viable option. Problem is just that we know how the RM fan base works...people have been sticking with the prefered edition no matter what. Giving those diehards a Rolemaster Legacy Editions label might satisfy their egos but I am convinced it would be a marketing disaster.

I think the largest problem at the moment is the hidden RMU boards risks stealing the best RMU discussions. Until the main books of RMU is done the hidden boards serves a purpose, but after that the RMU discussions should happen in the Rolemaster section or possible the Rolemaster section renamed to Rolemaster Unified. Making the beta discussions public is also an option...but do Ironcrown really benefit if new visitors to see all the rejected ideas there?

[MisterK]

What would that achieve except to undermine the concept that RMU will be unifying umbrella for all RM users?

I hate to break your bubble, but it won't be. It's just another edition. And some people will switch to it, some people won't. Just like countless other games before it.
The unifying factor is not the latest edition. It is the things that bind all editions together - the very basic mechanisms, the existence of spell lists and tables, and a couple of settings. But that's all. Everything else is "just another edition".

[nash]

What would that achieve except to undermine the concept that RMU will be unifying umbrella for all RM users?

I hate to break your bubble, but it won't be. It's just another edition. And some people will switch to it, some people won't. Just like countless other games before it.
The unifying factor is not the latest edition. It is the things that bind all editions together - the very basic mechanisms, the existence of spell lists and tables, and a couple of settings. But that's all. Everything else is "just another edition".

Part of the point is it is it the only supported edition.

RMU is the current rolemaster now.   Yes other editions still exist, but there is not new content for them.  All new books with RM stats will be RMU stats. 

An RMU subforum makes no sense to me.  RMU is the current / supported version of rolemaster.  Although I am 100% sure ICE is happy for you play whatever edition you want to play, they would definitely prefer new (or returning) players focus on RMU.

And in 5/10/20 years when we get One-Rolemaster or Rolemaster-Next or whatever it's called... RMU moves to the subforum and the new edition becomes the primary rolemaster.

[Jengada]

My personal preference, for organizational sorting things out, is to have a subforum for each version. There should be a space for general discussions that are not version-specific, and if the Rolemaster forum becomes a de facto RMU forum, there is no general space.

[Hurin]

My personal reasoning was this: I wanted to put up a poll just for RMU players about which sort of round they use (default or faster), but there did not seem to be an appropriate forum for that. I didn't want to put it on the RMU beta boards because Core Law is no longer in beta and I worried those beta boards might eventually be removed. But I didn't want to put it in the general Rolemaster forum, because I wanted to poll just RMU players... and sure enough, I already have a response in that poll by a non-RMU player and so my results are going to be a bit skewed.

[Cory Magel]

Problem is just that we know how the RM fan base works...people have been sticking with the preferred edition no matter what.

I don't think I'd put it that way. If that were true RMSS would have failed to attract any of the RM2 users. The problem that RM has, to a good degree, is it's been a veterans game that was built from the idea of customization.  So, once someone creates their own Rolemaster over the years, a new version doesn't need to be better than the previous one... it needs to be better than the individual users version.

We've used RM1, RM2, RMSS and a little of RMFRP. What I use is an evolution of them all and my own modifications mixed in as a result. The only real way to get me to buy in to RMU fully is for it to do more better than my version of RM.  I'm likely still going to buy the books and will almost surely utilize new material that has never existed in the previous versions, but there's not much it will 'fix' about what I'm using currently.  But I don't think I'm a great measuring stick since I'm very comfortable writing my own rules.

The question really is: Did it take the majority what of RM users most liked and leave behind what the majority of RM users dislike?  That's what 'unified' implies.  We may never fully know the answer to that and the only real gauge we'll likely have is sales numbers. I'm sure RM will continue to survive, but it won't prosper unless it can find new users to RM in general.

Giving those diehards a Rolemaster Legacy Editions label might satisfy their egos but I am convinced it would be a marketing disaster.

I think disaster is quite a reach.  I don't think any mixture of possibilities is going to move the needle much.

My personal preference is what we have. A blanket Rolemaster forum then a sub-forum dedicated to each (of which RMU should become one). But unless they completely got rid of the various version boards I really don't care. I'm going to continue to read and post in them all just as I always have.

[Cory Magel]

I didn't want to put it in the general Rolemaster forum, because I wanted to poll just RMU players... and sure enough, I already have a response in that poll by a non-RMU player and so my results are going to be a bit skewed.

How do you know for sure that person didn't implement the RMU round into their own version of RM?  We know quite well that a very large number of RM users don't use the round structure that whatever version they may use the majority of their rules come from.

[MisterK]

I didn't want to put it in the general Rolemaster forum, because I wanted to poll just RMU players... and sure enough, I already have a response in that poll by a non-RMU player and so my results are going to be a bit skewed.

How do you know for sure that person didn't implement the RMU round into their own version of RM?  We know quite well that a very large number of RM users don't use the round structure that whatever version they may use the majority of their rules come from.

Because it was me, and I explicitly said I don't use RMU
(I also didn't vote in the poll - I merely replied to it, for that very purpose - not pollute the poll results).

[Hurin]

No worries MisterK -- I didn't mean to call you out! But thank you for refraining from voting, since I really did just want it to be RMU players.

[Cory Magel]

Because it was me, and I explicitly said I don't use RMU
(I also didn't vote in the poll - I merely replied to it, for that very purpose - not pollute the poll results).

Well, then the results are unskewed it would seem.

[MisterK]

Because it was me, and I explicitly said I don't use RMU
(I also didn't vote in the poll - I merely replied to it, for that very purpose - not pollute the poll results).

Well, then the results are unskewed it would seem.

I wouldn't know - since I didn't answer the poll, I can't see the results