Topic: New Thoughts About Stats

[arakish]

New Thoughts About Stats

Although this is for my world of Onaviu, being loosely based on the new RMU system, I am posting this under the General Rolemaster section since it could feasibly be used with any flavor of Rolemaster.

I have still been debating on whether to keep the temp-pot stat score thing, or just go with a single stat score.  I am still siding with the single stat score.  I understand the logic behind the temp-pot thing, but I also feel that there really is no potential stat score, except for what a person is willing to train for.  For example, if a person does not train his/her memory, then memory will never improve anyway.  Same for strength or whatever.

What about constitution, you may ask.  Well, constitution gets trained by exposing yourself to the world.  If you seal yourself off from the world, then your immune system (constitution) will never develop and you will have a very low constitution.  In fact, your starting constitution score could actually drop.  This logic can be applied to all stats.

However, I also believe there is a maximum human potential score in any stat.  For example, it is my firm belief, borrowing from Hero Games and using "Stat" to not infringe, that there is a Normal Stat Maxima (NSMax).  This also leads to the possibility of Talents and Flaws that can be purchased to either increase or decrease this NSMax.  More on this later.


Random Stat Generation

Remember: All below, unless otherwise noted, is for a single stat score, not the temp-pot thing.  There is a method for stat scores to be increased while also using the Normal Stat Maxima thing discussed later.

Here are some numbers I have been playing around with.  The first three listed are just a basis for complete, or near complete, randomness.  This is for the roll for each stat.  Bolded and yellow indicates my foremost choice(s).

0 + 10d10: range = 10-100; median = 55.
10 + 9d10: range = 19-100; median = 59.5.
20 + 8d10: range = 28-100; median = 64.

30 + 5d10: range = 35-80; median = 57.5.
30 + 4d10: range = 34-70; median = 52.

35 + 5d10: range = 40-85; median = 62.5.
35 + 4d10: range = 39-75; median = 57.
35 + 3d10: range = 38-65; median = 51.5.

40 + 4d10: range = 44-80; median = 62.
40 + 3d10: range = 43-70; median = 56.5.

Which do y'all like the best?  Any other suggestions welcome.


Stat Purchase Method

Please note that the costs for stats is different for Onaviu than the standard RMUS.  See Stat Lookup Table for info.  The numbers below for average stat score is if all stats were purchased with an equal amount of points.  However, with the Stat Purchase Method, a player could have a couple of stats higher than the random would give whill also leaving a couple of stats at 50.

100 points would yield an average stat score of 60.
150 points would yield an average stat score of 65.
250 points would yield an average stat score of 70.
350 points would yield an average stat score of 75.
450 points would yield an average stat score of 80.

If persuaded, I might could go with 350 points for an average stat score of 75.  But, this is unlikely.

Which do y'all like the best?  Any other suggestions welcome.

For randomness centered around the 250, list below.

180 + 9d10: range = 189-270; median = 229.5.
190 + 8d10: range = 198-270; median = 234.
200 + 7d10: range = 207-270; median = 238.5.
210 + 6d10: range = 216-270; median = 243.
220 + 5d10: range = 225-270; median = 247.5.
230 + 4d10: range = 234-270; median = 252.
240 + 3d10: range = 243-270; median = 256.5.

The 270 max result above would represent an average stat score of 71.

Which do y'all like the best?  Any other suggestions welcome.


Before asking, the player will be given the choice of whether to use the Random Stat Generation Method, OR, the Stat Purchase Method, but NOT both, or a mixture.


Normal Stat Maxima

Suggested NSMax = 100, or perhaps 102.  Depends on my mood .

Suggested Talents/Flaws

This does NOT increase/decrease the stat score, unless the flaw purchased drops the NSMax below the current stat score.  It only increases/decreases the maximum potential score.

Please note that both talents and flaws are combined in the table below.  Costs are only suggestions (since I just imagined this) and may be adjusted as seen fit, for either or both the talent and/or flaw.

Tier		Cost		Effect
I		+/- 10		+/- 5 to NSMax for one stat
II		+/- 20		+/- 10 to NSMax for one stat
III		+/- 30		+/- 15 to NSMax for one stat
IV		+/- 40		+/- 20 to NSMax for one stat
V		+/- 50		+/- 25 to NSMax for one stat
etc.		+/- 10 per step		+/- 5 to NSMax for one stat per step

The reason this table extends beyond Tier V is due to the fact of Hodor (character in GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire).  His Re and Me has to be down there around 20 NSMax.  Then, OTOH, you have the gods...

As always, commend or trash.

rmfr

[Hurin]

I'm thinking along similar lines too. I understand the idea behind potentials, but it just involves too much bookkeeping for some players. I just give them a certain number of extra stat points per level to raise their stats, and this represents the effort spent in getting stronger/faster/etc. reasonably well.

I prefer point buy, because I like all my players to be equal and none to feel that they are being penalized purely due to chance.

I like to give a fair number of points-- I would say 350 on your chart above-- to buy stats, but that is partly because RMU characters are so weak at low levels that they kind of neat high stats to be effective.

These are just my preferences, but I would say I have playtested doing away with potentials and going to a point-buy (in a Spacemaster campaign), and it worked well. The only downside I found is that with a point buy, you see a lot of 50s and characters' stats are more similar. But overall, I was satisfied with the results.

[yammahoper]

3d100, keep the highest two.  No tables or charts required.

[markc]

  I am in firm opposition to no PTemp Stats. It is one of the things that makes RM stand out from the rest of the systems and makes RM not as much D&D clone.
MDC

[intothatdarkness]

  I am in firm opposition to no PTemp Stats. It is one of the things that makes RM stand out from the rest of the systems and makes RM not as much D&D clone.
MDC

Agree. I'm also finding uses for it in modern games (entry gates for certain organizations) that can't be replicated through single stat point buy unless you add a stat improvement formula using DPs (which is in my view simply substituting one complication for another).

[Nortti]

This has been discussed before. I still feel that the idea of that 1st level adventurer having potential to fulfill is a very positive thing. Those that rolled good stats in the beginning are happy already. Those that didnt get good stats at least can expect their character to improve every time they level up.

Buying with points would make RM more like other systems. Is that good or bad? Personally Im not a big fan of point buy systems. Maybe point buy could be an optional system?

Temp/pot system is unique to RM. If its kept in the core rules it needs to be well explained for the new blood. It would be possible to make it optional too if it seems to be confusing for potential new players.

[Turbs]

I am in firm opposition to no PTemp Stats. It is one of the things that makes RM stand out from the rest of the systems and makes RM not as much D&D clone.

I totally disagree with that statement.. Realistically. All a potential stat does is set a defined cap at how high that stat can go.  Many systems do this in various ways. One i can think of right now off the top of my head simply lists what each "potential" stat is in thier racial bonus/abilities table.

It would not be a hard stretch for GM's to simply add a row of stats listing the potentions in the RMU racial modifiers table too.

Another system i can think off simply allows a fixed number of increases per stat.  if its a pre-req for your proffession then it can go up "X" points if its another stat it can go up "Y" points

[choc]

IMHO you mean average not median ...