Topic: Rolemaster Unified art: what happened?

[pawsplay]

I was pretty excited about the new Rolemaster. However, after sitting with it, I finally decided to get rid of my hardcover. I was just too unhappy with how it looked. The question I have is: what happened?

I can see several possible scenarios.

First, maybe the dev team love how the new books look. We just agree to disagree, and I just part ways with this version of the game.

Second, maybe there was a budget constraint. Maybe all the art across three books had to cost $1000 or less or something. Maybe this is the painful result.

Third idea, maybe some of the artists just didn't deliver. Their portfolios looked okay, but what they turned in was really uneven, and even after revisions, this is where we are. This could be the result of a slightly less constrained, but still tight, budget.

Fourth idea, no one was really in charge. A bunch of art was ordered piecemeal, no one was responsible for QC, and this is the result.

Does anyone want to comment on this? Sorry if this comes across as harsh. I was just really hoping for a Rolemaster I would be happy to have on my shelf, and this does not hit the mark.

[jdale]

I like that there are characters who carry over from book to book, I like the gratar, and everybody having a familiar is a callback. It's got some dynamism, a variety of characters, and they are dressed like adventurers and not, well, undressed like some fantasy art.

That said, sure, ICE has a small press art budget not a Hasbro art budget. I don't know the actual numbers but, look, Core is platinum on Drivethrurpg. That's something around 1000-2000 copies. The proceeds of sales have to be split between ICE, writers, editors, art, and layout, plus DTR takes a cut themselves. So what do you think that actually means for the art budget? Now what does that mean on a per-piece basis?

[pawsplay]

Well, if the budget was truly sparse, I find myself wondering, was there a Kickstarter at some point to get some funds up front for the art?

[Cory Magel]

I'm not a fan of the covers. But, I don't like obviously digital art, so I've got an instant biased right there. I think it looks cheap (from a quality standpoint) a vast majority of the time. And, I'm sure, to a degree it literally is (actual cost) as there are no material costs involved and you can try as many times as you want to make something that looks cool. Sure, you have to pay for the program and your computer, but after that it's all simply your time - which is worth something, but not in the same way that $1000 is.

I've got a good amount of framed art around my house and only one of them is digital... and it doesn't look like it. It looks like the original piece was an actual painting.
Actually, I do have a set of six digital pieces: Nerdy Star Wars, Firefly and Dr Who mixed silhouette/word art. But most my stuff is Elmore, Easley, Caldwell, Parkinson, some of my own photography, etc.

Thing is, I couldn't really care less about the art for Rolemaster. I end up deconstructing the books and making my own anyhow. Probably not the normal response though.

[nash]

Well, if the budget was truly sparse, I find myself wondering, was there a Kickstarter at some point to get some funds up front for the art?

Best way to help would be to spread the word about rolemaster and get more people to buy it.   The more sales each book has, the more money can be budgeted for the next one.

Throwing 8-10% of funds (and time) away on a kickstarter doesn't seem a great way to improve anything.

[pawsplay]

I think a lot of the sales are going to be nostalgia sales. Putting a pretty book on the shelf could go a long way toward increasing those numbers.

[Evensnalgonel]

Yes, the illustrations mean that the books have not yet been translated into French, as the publisher is considering whether to redo all the illustrations. The market is already quite small, and the extra cost means that they're considering it as it is... much to my despair.

[5th Knight of Xar]

And, I'm sure, to a degree it literally is (actual cost) as there are no material costs involved and you can try as many times as you want to make something that looks cool. Sure, you have to pay for the program and your computer, but after that it's all simply your time - which is worth something, but not in the same way that $1000 is.

Sounds like creating digital imagery is about the same as being a writer/game designer, all you need is a cheap but functional computer and enough time on your hands to try and hit the right combination of keys to make up a product that someone else has to correct before publishing. 

[Hurin]

Props to ICE for sticking with real artists.

Yet, the art is at times alright, and at other times... just plainly not good. It's a shame, because the rules themselves are great, but the art is not going to be helping the sales. Just my opinion of course.

[pawsplay]

I think there should be a Kickstarter for Rolemaster Unified: Better Art Version.

[5th Knight of Xar]

I think there should be a Kickstarter for Rolemaster Unified: Better Art Version.

ICE's official statement is to not do kickstarters.

[jdale]

A Kickstarter can only generate more funds if either 1) it causes significantly more people to buy the product than otherwise would, or 2) it causes buyers to pay significantly more per copy than they otherwise would. It's not clear to me how either of those would work. Aside from those things, it just moves more of the sales up front instead of later on. Often it does that by offering a discount, which is counter to purpose #2. Also, it costs money to run, and Kickstarter takes part of the proceeds, so it's got to do so by a large margin to be a net gain at all. I don't see how that would have worked, even ignoring the question about who is doing the work.

[Cory Magel]

And, I'm sure, to a degree it literally is (actual cost) as there are no material costs involved and you can try as many times as you want to make something that looks cool. Sure, you have to pay for the program and your computer, but after that it's all simply your time - which is worth something, but not in the same way that $1000 is.

Sounds like creating digital imagery is about the same as being a writer/game designer, all you need is a cheap but functional computer and enough time on your hands to try and hit the right combination of keys to make up a product that someone else has to correct before publishing. 

I actually largely agree with that.  Many years ago, at a author panel at GenCon, I was asked how you 'get into' being an RPG writer.  My first response was that there were likely plenty of people in the audience that could come up with enough good RPG material to at least put out an expansion book and that the most difficult part of it was for the person to actually sit down and do it.  You just need good ideas and time.  But most people can't/won't dedicate the time needed.  It amazes me how many freelancers who actually do get hired for a project still don't deliver in the end.

I almost said it earlier, but when it comes to digital art I'd paint a very similar picture (ha! See what I did there?) with photography these days.  Professional photographers were concerned that digital cameras would start costing them business.  Because once film development was no longer a cost barrier everyone was going to become their own 'photographer'.  I mean, if you take a 1000 pictures odds are you're going to get lucky once in a while.  I have a good amount of photography gear (enough to consider an insurance rider) and I'd likely put myself, at best, on the middle-low end of an amateur photographer.  I took 10,000 pictures on a month long trip to the UK using the first ever Digital SLR camera and I got a lot of really cool pictures.  But I have many more that are duplicates (cause I was taking the same pic multiple times to make sure I got a good one) or just crap.  Yeah, maybe professionals do that too, but I couldn't make a living on it.  Couldn't consistently crank out quality photo's at a level where I'd consider myself worthy of charging someone to reliably shoot their wedding.

[pawsplay]

A Kickstarter can only generate more funds if either 1) it causes significantly more people to buy the product than otherwise would, or 2) it causes buyers to pay significantly more per copy than they otherwise would. It's not clear to me how either of those would work. Aside from those things, it just moves more of the sales up front instead of later on. Often it does that by offering a discount, which is counter to purpose #2. Also, it costs money to run, and Kickstarter takes part of the proceeds, so it's got to do so by a large margin to be a net gain at all. I don't see how that would have worked, even ignoring the question about who is doing the work.

Kickstarters consistently generate extra sales. First of all, Kickstarter is its own network. There are literally thousands of RPG players on there that just browse around, looking for projects to back. Second, it tends to inspire a heave-ho, let's do this vibe. So if you get all the existing fans to say, heck yeah, let's get a version with better art, you can get a lot of people to commit to purchasing, because there is both a perceived benefit, and a perceived sense of urgency. Third, Kickstarter campaigns catch a lot of eyeballs. They get shared around on social media, on forums, etc.

In the case of RPG projects, PDF sales have virtually no overhead, so structuring the price structure of the project to be mostly PDFs all but guarantees profitability. In the case of hard copies, you can right-size your print run to maximize your savings on printing costs.

But to me the first question is: why not more stock art? You would probably need a custom piece for the blue people and for the hawk people, but most of the stuff in these books is pretty generic. If cost is an issue, why not just get a Dean Spencer prescription, or pick up some of Eric Lofgren's not-quite-as-overused options? All you really need is a catchy piece of cover art; if you can't find something you like, that isn't already over-used, spend your budget on that.

I've seen plenty of books with smaller audiences with more investment in the art. Rolemaster is a classic game with an existing audience. I don't understand how it went to print with such an uneven, unprofessional appearance.

[jdale]

In the case of RPG projects, PDF sales have virtually no overhead, so structuring the price structure of the project to be mostly PDFs all but guarantees profitability.

The marginal cost is very low, but you still have the upfront costs of writers, editors, layout, art. With the volume we are talking about, even when you spread that out over every sale, it's still significant. If, say, we doubled our sales by using Kickstarter (which I think is generous), it's not enough change that.

In the case of hard copies, you can right-size your print run to maximize your savings on printing costs.

Since ICE is print-on-demand, that's kind of moot. You could do an actual print run, which might in fact save money, but there's no staff to receive and ship the books.

[pawsplay]

The marginal cost is very low, but you still have the upfront costs of writers, editors, layout, art. With the volume we are talking about, even when you spread that out over every sale, it's still significant. If, say, we doubled our sales by using Kickstarter (which I think is generous), it's not enough change that.

Well, it doesn't cost more to layout quality art than cheap art.

I think between improving the appearance of the product, and Kickstarter's network advantages, it would not be a stretch to double or more your sales.

Since ICE is print-on-demand, that's kind of moot. You could do an actual print run, which might in fact save money, but there's no staff to receive and ship the books.

I feel like if you accidentally sold 5000 hard copies, you could probably go ahead and pay a little to get some help with fulfillment.

It seems like quite a bit of thought has already been put into this. I'm just floating out some thoughts, as someone who has done projects with a lot less cachet than a new Rolemaster edition.