Author Topic: Quick q about breakage and item condition.  (Read 601 times)

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Offline Sweetleaf

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Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« on: February 03, 2022, 05:49:50 PM »
So if an item becomes rusty/corroded, how should I handle breakage, and why can't I find any official rules about such already anywhere in Rolemaster?

So I'd assume it would begin to affect a blade's edge/spiky bits, and the overall breakage factor of an item?  What about in terms of ancient traps and metallic objects found in damp dungeons?  Corroded metal against similar metal seizing as they become one lump of rust/corroded mass would be a thing too I'd assume.

There is so little to go on but assumption about this sort of thing, but it's highly relevant as it's always the case that adventurers wander into a dungeon and find pretty much immaculate weapons and armour, and all the doors work, despite having metal hinges, or being composed of metal, set in metal frames, etc.

Chains, trap mechanisms, locks on chests and hinges, chain/plate armour, things with buckles and metal fastening of other varieties, nails sticking out of old floorboards that were cast aside in a pile of rubble, metal water troughs, metal filings getting everywhere - rusted or otherwise, etc, etc.

Silver tarnish, copper, bronze, other oxidised materials, etc, etc.  Nothing really seems to age naturally in Rolemaster.

Also, tetanus, lock jaw and dying due to a rusty blade, or anything rusty, like the iron filings sticking an adventurer.

It could be good, with metal filings in pies to poison someone, or accidental rust in a tray with a  pie served to someone, there are so many possibilities.  Larger structures and rust/corrosion...  I feel there is a possible optional chapter missing from Rolemaster and maybe a spell list or three.

Just imagine the iron golem with a surprise for the adventurers, or maybe it can't move at all now and it's spirit calls out for release, giving the adventurers a quest to free it, or the iron fortress, or the stash of low steel weapons...

Offline Vladimir

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2022, 06:14:33 PM »
  As a blacksmith, if an item is so rusted that you have to worry about it breaking you may as well toss it. I'd assume RM would assign the usual -5 to -15 rating for poor quality weapons that are too far gone for restoration. A moderate quality bronze weapon is as good as an iron one, without the worry of rust, which really isn't a problem with minor maintenance.

  For random stuff found in a dungeon, I usually assume that treasure lists don't include every heap of scrap iron there. I usually raid a dungeon for treasure, not recyclable materials.

  BTW, tetanus isn't caused by rust...it is a bacteria that can be found in soil, dust and animal droppings, so anywhere in a dungeon.

 
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2022, 07:14:30 PM »
Castles & Ruins had some rules for the chances of old traps not operating. The focus was really on the "Castles" part, but there was a bit about "Ruins".
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Offline jdale

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2022, 07:15:00 PM »
In RMSS, you would assign a penalty to the item like Vladimir says, but also penalize the item's Strength the same amount (for resisting breakage) and potentially increase the breakage numbers (requiring breakage checks more often). You could also simply rule that any fumble is automatically a break.

In RMU, breakage checks are always on 33 and 77 but you would still reduce the item's strength. Items that fail breakage checks incur penalties that make them less effective but also reduce their strength more so they will fall apart more quickly.

I generally describe lots of things in dungeons as rotted, rusted, or decayed away to the point of worthlessness. How severe that is depends on conditions, is the dungeon a damp and mildewy environment or is it a dry desert tomb? There aren't rules for that but it's narrative. In a rough environment, the items that are able to withstand the years stand out, even if they are not super powerful. For example the party found several sets of plain but perfectly preserved dishes made out of laen. No skill bonus but tough to break. (Now I have to figure out the value of such prosaic artifacts, my own fault! :) )
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Offline jdale

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2022, 07:16:17 PM »
Oh, on traps... our GM in our RMSS game sprang a trap on us that released thousands of scorpions from the ceiling. However, it was a very old trap so they were dried up dead husks. Gross but harmless!
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2022, 09:28:54 PM »
Quote
For example the party found several sets of plain but perfectly preserved dishes made out of laen. No skill bonus but tough to break. (Now I have to figure out the value of such prosaic artifacts, my own fault! :) )
  RM Alchemy Companion has laen price mod at x 5000. So rough market price would be that if you find a buyer. They may be plain but can be imbued with magic.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2022, 11:39:04 PM »
Hmm, RMU Treasure Law puts a metal bowl at 0.2sp or pottery at 0.02sp. Plates at 0.3sp metal or 0.03sp pottery. At a x5000 material cost that would be 100-150 gp per item if we use the metal version as the base price, or 10-15 gp if we use the pottery version.

However RMU Treasure Law also brings the cost multiplier for laen down to x30, so that means 6-9sp or 6-9bp. Which makes sense because the enchantability advantage is not present, they are antiquities but not the most interesting antiquities. It's hard to imagine paying 100 gp for an unornamented bowl with no special properties. On the other hand, I don't understand the value of NFTs either, so maybe I just can't think like a rich person. :)

I think they got about a dozen sets in any case. I'm pretty stingy with loot (and RMU pricing for items and herbs are down too) so it's not bad. (There was also other stuff, but these were just sitting in rotted crates in a rotted out storage room.)
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2022, 01:41:05 AM »
Economics is relative. A campaign aimed at getting players to spend treasure has higher prices while a campaign closer to Medieval realism has people needing only coppers to live from day to day. If you play a realistic Medieval campaign you'll have extremes in prices due the rare skills used to produce items and the difference in wealth between the lowest and highest classes.

  When a noble bought a fitted suit of plate armor it was like buying a house today: an individual's greatest expenditure.

  Laen plates: Their only value is the unusual/rare material, such as the shock the Athenians had at the Persians using platters of gold. Could the laen be repurposed? Perhaps their real value would be melting them down to be made into other items. I played a campaign where the reward was in laen bars, which serve no real purpose until they are worked. If I look hard enough, there are base prices by weight. So laen plates would have at least a base value as scrap material.   
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2022, 06:32:29 PM »
Has the value of laen been reduced from the Beta version of Treasure Law? Otherwise, if the dishes are only worth a few bronze pieces, they can be scrapped for the 1200 silver piece per pound material value. You might not be able to get that until you hunted down someone with access to a cold-forge, but it'd be worth some travel. Even if the value of laen had been reduced an order of magnitude, you'd be greatly enhancing the value of the plates by melting them down. (Of course, if you use the more realistic pricing rules I had as core in Beta, you don't get this kind of issue.)
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Quick q about breakage and item condition.
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2022, 05:12:39 AM »
RM2 also has Breakage Factor (BF) for items and handling the possibility of bad things happening to your goodies.  After one of the companions was released, the items descriptions contained the BF as part of the stats if GMs wanted to go that far in depth.  I think a roll was made if a good attack was made and 0 HP was the result.  This equated to the attack hitting a weapon or shield at full force.  I think there is also an optional rule for rolling for BF if a high enough crit was rolled.  We used it to counter the crit result if it stated "...and weapon is destroyed..."  Magic weapons had even higher chance of resisting breakage.
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