Author Topic: RMC Questions  (Read 8613 times)

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Offline MisterK

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2022, 08:42:22 AM »
You can, but that doesn't help the average person or the person with average stats. The average person, with say 50 in all stats, would get no bonus at all. So you still have the problem of basic functions being too difficult for the average person.
On the other hand, I wouldn't ask for someone to roll for a "basic function"... As far as I understand the rules, stat rolls should be at most very rare, because the game is calibrated to be skill-based, not stat-based.

Additionally, using the moving manoeuver table, routine actions are a full success at 41+. so even with a +0 bonus you have 60% chance of getting a full success, and 95% chance of getting a 80+ result. I'd say it would work with the lower difficulties.

But all in all, I don't think it's a good idea to use stat rolls in a skill-based system. You could fudge something by using the closest applicable secondary skill, or even adapt Body Development (which is a general physical skill if you think about it) - use the number of ranks as a base for skill bonus, add relevant stat (ST, AG or whatever) and come up with a difficulty.

Offline Hurin

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2022, 09:21:08 AM »
The sorts of rolls I mean by basic rolls are not skill rolls, but the common sorts of rolls that people make for things like remembering a person's name. There's no real skill for that: it's usually just a function of natural ability. But if you say, 'Ok, it's a medium maneuver to remember that guy's name' (and note that players do tend to default to a medium maneuver), and 'You can add your Memory bonus to the roll', the average person is going to fail that most of the time.
          An average person rolling an average roll only gets 40% success (roll of 50). Furthermore, a person with an amazing memory of 100 (+25) still only gets a 50% chance of success (50+25 = 75 on medium maneuver). This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The success rate is simply too low, and even exceptionally high bonuses don't seem to help sufficiently. This contributes to the frustration and sense of the system as too difficult, especially at lower levels.
     If, however, you said, 'add your memory stat', the average person would succeed 50% of the time (which I think should be the baseline) and the person with the 100 Memory is going to succeed 95% of the time.
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Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2022, 09:26:58 AM »
For pure Stat rolls, what about, d100 + Stat bonus + Race bonus get 50+ to succeed, else you fail? Apply other modifiers if relevant. Similar to what Majyk said.

For a binary 'yes-no' success-failure, can't you do the same?

Offline MisterK

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2022, 10:14:41 AM »
The sorts of rolls I mean by basic rolls are not skill rolls, but the common sorts of rolls that people make for things like remembering a person's name. There's no real skill for that: it's usually just a function of natural ability. But if you say, 'Ok, it's a medium maneuver to remember that guy's name' (and note that players do tend to default to a medium maneuver), and 'You can add your Memory bonus to the roll', the average person is going to fail that most of the time.
Oh, OK.

I don't ever have players roll for that kind of things. But then again, I tend to reduce the number of rolls as much as I can.

Offline Hurin

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2022, 10:31:13 AM »
For pure Stat rolls, what about, d100 + Stat bonus + Race bonus get 50+ to succeed, else you fail? Apply other modifiers if relevant. Similar to what Majyk said.

Yes, that seems good.

You either have to add 50 to the roll for 101+ success, or you have to reduce the success threshold to 50+, or else you're going to get rates of success that are too low. You're doing the latter (reducing the threshold to 50+), and that would be fine.

Quote
For a binary 'yes-no' success-failure, can't you do the same?

Yes, indeed.
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Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2022, 12:13:28 PM »
For pure Stat rolls, what about, d100 + Stat bonus + Race bonus get 50+ to succeed, else you fail? Apply other modifiers if relevant. Similar to what Majyk said.

Yes, that seems good.

You either have to add 50 to the roll for 101+ success, or you have to reduce the success threshold to 50+, or else you're going to get rates of success that are too low. You're doing the latter (reducing the threshold to 50+), and that would be fine.

Quote
For a binary 'yes-no' success-failure, can't you do the same?

Yes, indeed.
Great news! Thanks for clarifying.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2022, 09:13:03 PM »
For stat rolls, I consider the stat below 100 divided by 10, round up, added to the number over 100, as a number of ranks, to which one merely add the stat bonus. To sum up:
* if stat <= 100, # of ranks = (stat / 10)+
* if stat > 100, # of ranks = 10 + (stat - 100)
To this, add the bonus as "normally".

So, a stat of 88 with a bonus of +14 grants an equivalent skill of (88/10)+ = 9 ranks = +45 +14 = +59 whereas a stat of 101 with a bonus of +30 grants an equivalent skill of 10 + (101 - 100) = 11 ranks = +52 +30 = +82.
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Offline Elrich Maltah

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2022, 12:15:33 AM »
Thank all for the advice. Much to ponder.

Here's another question, what does a player roll when their character wants to:

- lift a (St) heavy log off the road so the coach can continue on

- walk across (Ag) a thin beam without falling off

I can't find any rules for Stat rolls. If you're using just St, or just Ag, that's extremely swingy on d100.

If you only have access to RMC, I would use the various advice (advices?) listed above to resolve these scenarios.

If you had access to RM2 and the companions, you could resolve them fairly straightforwardly.

The thin beam problem is simplest, by using the Tightrope Walking skill and its alternative static action modifiers in Companion II (p. 92), which assigns difficulties for widths from 3' wide down to 0.1" wide, as well as environmental considerations.

For the log scenario, you can use the lifting capacity calculation given in Companion VII (p. 33): Lifting Capacity = Weight/2 + (St/10 x St Stat Modifier). Once you figure out how much the log would weigh (I found a calculator online at https://www.easycalculation.com/other/science/wood-log-weight.php), you ought to be able to determine an appropriate difficulty, taking into consideration the character being able to brace himself sufficiently and any other influences.

Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2022, 03:08:51 AM »
I'm happy using the '50 or more to succeed' binary pass-fail system above, to conduct Stat checks, but don't Skills start off higher and increase quicker than Stats? If so, I don't think the 50 or more system will work.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use Skills in a binary 'pass or fail' situation.

Offline Hurin

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2022, 06:30:43 AM »

I'm still trying to figure out how to use Skills in a binary 'pass or fail' situation.

For that, I would just use the existing rules for Static Actions, but instead of consulting the MM chart and deriving a % chance of success from it and then rolling for that, just make success at 101+, and everything else failure.
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Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2022, 07:02:40 AM »

I'm still trying to figure out how to use Skills in a binary 'pass or fail' situation.

For that, I would just use the existing rules for Static Actions, but instead of consulting the MM chart and deriving a % chance of success from it and then rolling for that, just make success at 101+, and everything else failure.
Ok, I'll go with your suggestion. Thank you

Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2022, 04:05:08 PM »

I'm still trying to figure out how to use Skills in a binary 'pass or fail' situation.

For that, I would just use the existing rules for Static Actions, but instead of consulting the MM chart and deriving a % chance of success from it and then rolling for that, just make success at 101+, and everything else failure.

What's the reasoning behind 101+?

Offline Hurin

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2022, 05:01:08 PM »
It is a percentile system. In addition,  51 is the average roll, but you also potentially have skill and stat bonus on top of that. Also, it is a system with open-ended high rolls starting just as you approach 100, so this ensures that most open-ended high rolls succeed. You could make it 111+, as I think RMSS did, but RMSS also gave higher starting skill bonuses (up front bonuses).

My own take is that I also like keeping stat checks, of the sort we were talking about above, at 101+ for all the above reasons. 100 is the highest stat, but you still need to roll at least 1 to succeed.
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Offline EltonJ

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2022, 05:01:51 PM »
I think its because of the open ended roll mechanic.  You roll a 96 or above, you add another roll.

Offline terefang

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2022, 05:06:59 PM »
if you look at the static action table (10-04 and 10-05) basic mods you will see

Routine +30 upto Absurd -70.

more than "100 + mods" eg. 101+ corresponds directly to this.
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Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2022, 05:21:29 PM »
Sound reasoning. Thanks all for the info.

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2022, 10:08:47 PM »
101+ as the success point means that on a roll with no other modifier, you chance of success is a percent equal to your skill (ignoring some edge cases due to open-endedness). If your skill is +40, then you need to add to that a roll of 61+ to exceed 100, and the chance of a roll between 61 and 100 on (fair) d100 is 40%.

The 111+ threshold (which originated on RM2 tables and was carried on into RMSS/FRP along with the more skill-specific tables that started being introduced at the same time) was due to going from a simple pass/fail model to degrees of success.* Partial Success results came as far down as 76-90, so straight Success was driven up a bit from 101 to 111. So slightly harder to reach a full success result, while considerably easier to at least get some success. I assume that the thinking here was to balance the easier/harder. Where there is room to allow for a spectrum of success/failure, this approach provides a more nuanced skill resolution, but if you have a situation where "Do. Or do not." is really the only thing to resolve, stick with the original "success at 101+, failure below" threshold.

* This transition was not a particularly late one, as my RM2 Character Law & Campaign Law contains this in the optional rules sections. It did not wait for the Companion volumes to start coming out.
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Offline Cpt Tiberius J. Krik

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2022, 02:10:09 AM »
Thank you for the info

Offline Hurin

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2022, 08:46:11 AM »
Yes, good points, and thanks for the corrections, Dan!
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Offline Tywyll

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Re: RMC Questions
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2022, 09:46:14 AM »
Thank all for the advice. Much to ponder.

Here's another question, what does a player roll when their character wants to:

- lift a (St) heavy log off the road so the coach can continue on

- walk across (Ag) a thin beam without falling off

I can't find any rules for Stat rolls. If you're using just St, or just Ag, that's extremely swingy on d100.

Assuming you are using Secondary skills, there is almost no 'just a stat' situation that probably isn't covered by a skill. For example, I'm pretty sure balance is a skill, as well as Laborer or something similar.

Against the Darkmaster handles it fairly straightforward: Athletics, Acrobatics, and Lore skills are ALWAYS used for basic attribute rolls. Honestly, if I were playing RMC without RoCo2 skills, I would change 'climbing' to Athletics and Swimming to Acrobatics to handle those sorts of situations. Memory and Reasoning I can't ever imagine forcing a player to roll.