Topic: Enchanted Arrow Heads?

[markc]

 I was thinking about arrows and enchantments. Now why would'ent an enchater just enchant the arrow head with an ability instead of the whole arrow? I agree that some of the "bonus" is in the shaft and flights of the arrow but IMO most of it would be in the head. I say this because arrow often break in my game and I would like a way to preserve a magical arrow or enchanced arrow. So I am thinking about breaking the arrow into 2 or 3 parts to determine the bonus besides any bonus from the bow itself. This way when the shaft and flights break the archer can just mount the arrow head upon a new shaft and the world will be fine again.

Any thoughts?

MDC   

[Fidoric]

I have never thought about it before, but I can't see why you couldn't do this. I imagine we could say the enchantment is anchored to the arrowhead. In fact, it is certainly the same with a sword. The blade is enchanted to provide magic effects, but i am quite sure you can change the hilt wrap without altering the overall magical properties. That should be the same with arrows IMO.
However, if you want to restrict magic weapons, to tie the enchantment to the entire arrow could be a very efficient way.

[markc]

 Yes and the same way works for the sword. Break the hilt off and suddenly the sword loses it abilities. I think I like the arrow head and blade enchated seperatly as it makes more sense than the situation in the last sentance.

 But I can also see, and do use the idea of giving additional powers to weapons if they have a specific; magical hilt, a bow for an arrow [or the other way around], a haft for a hafted weapon or a scabbord for a weapon. And I even do the gems in a hilt trick or socked items like in some MMO's. But I can say my favorate in items that grow and change with the wielder and their actions.

MDC

[Fidoric]

Different enchantments might be cast on each part of the weapon. For example, OB addition on the arrow head, long flight on the shaft, accuracy on the fletching...

[Mider]

The only problem with that is combining the parts into a whole.  Is an arrow when shot just an arrow or is it the parts?  Just like is a chair, 4 legs, seat, back and arms in which case you could put 8 spells on it? 

[mocking bird]

Wouldn't you get the same problems though of stacking that you might get with partial armor enchantments?  For example if you have the head, shaft and flights enchanted separately why not enchant various armor parts separately as well?

Also shouldn't magical arrows have a significantly higher breakage factor than normal ones?  You get the quality bonus right off the top and then you could indeed have higher quality/harder woods used in the shafts themselves.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I like the idea of enchanting arrowheads, to make them reusable, however, in doing so, I would preclude them from working properly with enchanted shafts and/or other components. I would also require at least a 24 hour waiting period before a magical arrowhead lends its magic to the whole arrow.

They way that I view it is that every item has an innate matrix/aura, and that when an item is enchanted the magic is woven into that matrix/aura so that it is part of it (bladerunes and such similar temporary magics are slightly different).

The hilt on a sword can be changed out because the hilt itself has absolutely no effect on the blade and its usage. Besides which, the hilt and associated pieces are also much smaller than the magical blade itself.

On the other hand, an arrow is the sum of its parts; head, shaft, and fletching. This is why most magical arrows will have the enchantment on the whole arrow, and not just a piece of it. All three parts are important to the arrow. The matrix/aura for an arrow is a single aura, not three separate auras.

Now, to have an enchanted arrowhead, that can be placed on different shafts, the enchantment is going to have to be modified to either be stronger or to be able to spread and encompass the whole arrow over a period of time (likely 24 hours).

If the enchantment is stronger, that means that the aura will be stronger, and thus it would (IMO) likely overwhelm any enchantments on the shaft.

If the enchantment spreads to the whole arrow, then the arrow will need to be unenchanted for the aura to spread properly.

In both cases, having an enchantment on the head, and one on the shaft will cause problems as the two enchantments both struggle for dominance. Chances are likely that they will short each other out, leaving an enchanted arrow that has no abilities/powers at all.

Before somebody brings up armor and how we did it in Combat Companion, I would like to point out that armor can be worn as a full suit AND that each piece of that suit can be worn/used separately on its own. And that this is why each piece of armor only gets a portion of the overall enchantment on a full suit of armor. (i.e. why each +5 on a full suit only gives a +0.5 to a set of bracers).

[Allen]

I think this makes a lot of sense, that being a particular type of arrow could have it's enchantment focused on a specific part as Fidoric puts forward here.
Something to think about that's for sure as a GM... they may find a handful of magic arrow heads, as treasure, and are able to determine what they are, they'd still need to find a fletcher who would be able to then incorporate that head with a shaft, etc.
just a thought...

Different enchantments might be cast on each part of the weapon. For example, OB addition on the arrow head, long flight on the shaft, accuracy on the fletching...

[Greyaxe]

I like the idea that different parts of an arrow confer different bonuses or magics.  Like the head of an arrow being slaying the shaft for distance and the fletching for accuracy.  I agree with Rasyr that the magic of any one part would have to take time (24 hrs) to confer its bonuses to the arrow with a battle for dominance or a reduction in effectiveness.  EG an arrowhead of Daemon Slaying, a shaft of +10% range and a fletching of +30 OB.  Would equate into a third of that bonus when used together, you would get Lesser daemon slaying (type 1 or 2 daemons only)  +3% range at + 10 OB.

[markc]

 Thinking on the sum of parts idea, I think there is a mending spell that might work to make the parts of an arrow whole. So when a shaft breaks and in my game they break a lot. The PC digs out the head, replaces the shaft and fletching will the approperate wood and feather's and smith quality. The arrow head casts mend on the parts to make it whole and it is ready to shoot.

 I I do it as above then it allows for the PC to carry extra shafts, spend time creating arrow or bolt shafts just like the often carry many extra bow strings.

 On the same topic of missile weapons. Do you as a GM let your PC's carry around a bow that is strung all the time? I tend not to and if they do I increase the chance of the string snapping.

Thanks
MDC

[Dax]

 On the same topic of missile weapons. Do you as a GM let your PC's carry around a bow that is strung all the time? I tend not to and if they do I increase the chance of the string snapping.

No, but I had a hard argument about that matter with one of our others GM.
Fortunately he changed his mind in the last years (the same in many other points - the one thing that is still missing: Devotion to RM).

A bitter afterthought: The change of mind has something to do with the circumstance that he is now GM ... 

[Langthorne]

 On the same topic of missile weapons. Do you as a GM let your PC's carry around a bow that is strung all the time? I tend not to and if they do I increase the chance of the string snapping.

No.

What is the increase you use in 'string snapping over time strung'?

[markc]

 On the same topic of missile weapons. Do you as a GM let your PC's carry around a bow that is strung all the time? I tend not to and if they do I increase the chance of the string snapping.

No.

What is the increase you use in 'string snapping over time strung'?

Bows that are strung all the time have constant tenson on the string and can loose some of there projecting power. Also bow strings in fantasy are not as good as todays bow strings made of synthetics so i have heard that in general people did not walk around with strung bows. They only strung them when they needed them or carried spares. Yes it is very bad in combat when your bow string breaks so it is good to have another weapon preferability a hand weapon that can be drawn quickly.

MDC

[Langthorne]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.

I don't allow bows to be constantly strung, for the same reasons you list.

What I wanted to know was how soon your 'increased chance of string snapping' kicks in, and what numbers you use.

[markc]

Langthorne,
 I basicly double the breakage numbers as well as double the fumble numbers. How soon do i apply this penalty? Well I really do not have a set number but play it more by ear. Also PC's generally buy quite a few bow strings in my game, I think most carry around at least 6 but often it is more like 12.
 I also like to assess a upkeep cost after an adventure so that money goes to what ever the PC has. I also play it by ear but of course have a higher value for higher level and quality equipment. I also require PC's to keep track of damage on there weapon strength and that can be repaired by the proper smith or craftsmen. I have not found a armor point system I like yet so I just kick out a number basicly based on how many and how bad the crits were that the PC had taken. [Sometimes I keep the info on my GM player cards. You know the ones that players would love to get a look at as it has lots of info about there PC's that they do not know.]

How do you do it?
MDC

[Langthorne]

I don't have a set time frame either, but if I deem that the bow has been strung for too long I would tend to say it needs restringing.

(PCs just don't tend to carry around strung bows)

I like your system. I think I'll try to look into giving a time frame based on historical sources, and I think I'll also add increasing range restrictions and increasing attack penalties.

Generally, I don't require micro management of weapon and armor wear and tear (beyond weapon breakage and crit results), but I would be keen to have a system for it. I'd include wear and tear due to use/misuse and also due to climate, environment (salt water, sand storms, extreme heat or cold etc).

Have you looked at the optional armor rules doc in (I think) the vault? Makes for an interesting comparison with the new combat companion too.

Ah yes, GM notes. They are great even if you don't write anything of consequence on them - just to keep them on their toes (and guessing/wondering/worrying).

[pastaav]

My thought about enchanting arrowheads...arrows is from my point of view one of the most troublesome aspects of balancing alchemy. At least in any system that factor in the base cost of the magic item in the final price. Of course if you decide that base cost of the item doesn't change the price of the magic item it is no problem that arrows are very cheap to make, but that create other weird effects.

[markc]

Langthorne,
 If you do find some good historical stuff please post it here or write an article for the Guild Companion. I have not taken a look in the Vault at the armor rules there but I have seen some in one of the RM2 Companion books. If I remember right it gave hits based on AT and might have added hits for special material, but it was quite a while ago that I looked at it.

 I have a number of these areas to think about for my next campaign probably starting next year sometime.

Thanks
MDC

[Langthorne]

will do   

It may take a while, but I'll get to it at some point - certainly before next year - I've also got character generation, skill system, spell lists, combat system and more to sort out - I will also have to make time for playing RMSS (with our house rules) too.

[markc]

will do  

It may take a while, but I'll get to it at some point - certainly before next year - I've also got character generation, skill system, spell lists, combat system and more to sort out - I will also have to make time for playing RMSS (with our house rules) too.

 Yes I know I am in the same boat. I think my campaign will start out modern and then either switch to fantasy or future or even both. It depends on the players and what they want to do.
 Also if you creat spreed sheet I would like to see it. I do not have a good one for SM:P, an old player made one that just counts up the totoal ranks and spits out a number. Also to make it complicated I use the RMSS fantasy rules mixed in with SM:P rules. I really love the SM:P Psionics and RMSS Magic interaction.
 Also create styles by using MAC's system or RMC Combat Companion's system. That decision is going to take a lot of thought on my part as it can really change the game one way or another.

MDC