Topic: Assigning Experience

[Biviar]

Hi everyone. I’d like talk about some issues I’ve found over the years, first with MERP and then with RM, hear what your experience has been, how you have dealt with them.

Experience has shown me that there are basically 2 types of fights among players: who gets to choose first among the magic items and who delivers the killing blow. Of course, this depends on the relationship of the players, but even among good friends, the second one still moves the mood. They don’t care that much about the prestige of killing a powerful enemy as they do about the experience they will receive; this derives from the experience distribution system. If the party travels together, traveling experience really don’t count since everybody gets the same. HP received don’t really matter after level 5 (although they still like to get critical received experience… assuming they can survive the critical roll). It doesn’t matter how many spells you cast, eventually you will run out PP. MM are good, but they cannot compare to killing enemies. In the end, everything comes to who kills the most, who gives the fatal blow. Even if you can keep track of the experience that you receive for each critical delivered (in large battles, we just ignore that), a fighter usually gets more xp, and they get angry when someone else arrives to help you kill an enemy when they already have weakened it because, technically, your are stealing their xp. I know it totally makes sense that you get the xp of what you kill, but I’m thinking here more from the gaming experience point of view (with difficult gamers), keeping the best possible player environment with good balance among professions, even among just fighters.

A friend of mine who plays AD&D told me that the only fair system to assign experience (the one they use) is to equally divide it among all the characters present during the fight (something like Diablo II). Otherwise, lower level characters, specially spell casters, wouldn’t be able to keep the pace with the rest, and you will have fighters 3-4 levels above the others… not that funny to use any non-fighting profession. I tried this option, but then then the fighters got angry that they started getting behind (they don't cast spells).

If the RM standard rules work for you and this has never happened on any session, congrats. If you have experienced something similar and somehow achieved some balance, I’d really like to hear about it.

Thanks.

[Hurin]

Here's a thread where various people discuss their xp awarding strategies:

http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16752.0

Many of us no longer track things like killing blow or criticals or even miles of movement or anything like that. We just tell the players when to level up. I personally give characters a level after every 2 or 3 sessions; sometimes I tie it to performing a particular task or reaching a particular milestone (when you clear out the undead from the caves, you'll get a level). Some GMs still give out reward xp to particular characters for good roleplaying, smart ideas, or things like that. I personally just give everyone in the party the same amount, because I assume the party is a team and everyone works together. It saves a heck of a lot of bookkeeping.

[Spectre771]

A friend of mine who plays AD&D told me that the only fair system to assign experience (the one they use) is to equally divide it among all the characters present during the fight (something like Diablo II). Otherwise, lower level characters, specially spell casters, wouldn’t be able to keep the pace with the rest, and you will have fighters 3-4 levels above the others… not that funny to use any non-fighting profession. I tried this option, but then then the fighters got angry that they started getting behind (they don't cast spells).

Definitely look at the thread Hurin posted as there is a very big discussion there with several methods for XP distribution.

In the 25+ years of RM, the groups I have been in have only ever had an issue with XP distribution with one GM.  We jokingly mocked him "You killed the entire orc army with one spell, you pickpocketed the beggar, and you were knocked unconscious in round 1..... ummm... everyone gets 5000 XP"

XP balances out for us and every one stays within 1 level of the other players unless they miss a couple of gaming sessions, but that's only fair, right?  You don't play you don't get XP.  The "guidelines" laid out in RM2 ChL&CaL have worked well for us for a long long time but they are just a guide, not hard fast laws.  Our spell casters always kept up with the fighters and the fighters always kept up with spell casters.  XP is awarded for damage given and damage received, not just the killing blow.  Criticals given and severity and criticals received and their severity.  Getting beat up is a learning experience.  Near death situations are a learning experience.

As for the AD&D being "the only fair system to assign experience..." I wholeheartedly disagree.  We've had players who sit back and hardly contribute at all - to game play, to combat, to spells, to negotiations.  We have brand new players who try to learn the system or who are new to gaming and aren't quite ready to contribute.  We've had expert players and rules-lawyers who absolutely abuse every little loophole they can find.  We've had players who were more interested in the new iPhone release and who spent the entire session playing with their cell phones while the remaining players tried to tackle the boss. 

Everyone earning the same XP across the board is far from being fair.  I say psshhhaw to that statement.

[jdale]

I think it comes down to, what behavior do you want to reward? What motivates your PCs?

The original roleplaying games rewarded combat and getting loot because that's what they were about. As the scope has moved further and further from the wargaming roots of RPGs, it makes sense to reward other things. On the motivation side, some groups enjoy the competition but there's a danger of a reinforcing pattern where the PC who gets the most experience becomes the most powerful and therefore does the most and gets the most experience. Shared experience mitigates that concern (which otherwise falls on the GM to fix, or risk the other PCs getting less interested in the game).

GM fiat is by far the easiest, goal oriented XP is pretty easy too, whereas the highly detailed original RM XP systems are the most work for the GM. That's an important consideration too.

[Biviar]

Thank you for all your comments. I’m sorry for posting question already discussed, I’ve read several of the discussions, but there are still a lot to check.

I’m already reviewing the thread Hurin indicated. This will do it.

Thanks again.

[Druss_the_Legend]

I think it comes down to, what behavior do you want to reward? What motivates your PCs?

The original roleplaying games rewarded combat and getting loot because that's what they were about. As the scope has moved further and further from the wargaming roots of RPGs, it makes sense to reward other things. On the motivation side, some groups enjoy the competition but there's a danger of a reinforcing pattern where the PC who gets the most experience becomes the most powerful and therefore does the most and gets the most experience. Shared experience mitigates that concern (which otherwise falls on the GM to fix, or risk the other PCs getting less interested in the game).

GM fiat is by far the easiest, goal oriented XP is pretty easy too, whereas the highly detailed original RM XP systems are the most work for the GM. That's an important consideration too.

agree with this post 100%. as GM u need to think about what behaviour u want to reward. i like goal orientated XP rewards as these can be both group and individual rewards. this gives u a reason to explore a pcs background a little deeper and give them reasons to adventure other than treasure/killing monsters. i think ive moved away from XP for killing stuff into more goals/objectives. id give typically 500-1000XP for a minor objective achieved and 1500-3000 XP for a major objective. that seems like a lot know but i figure i want my player characters to advance at about 1/2 level per 3-4 game sessions. This of course depends how frequently you play but his is about right for my campaign.

I actually like in D&D how u get XP for treasure and magic items and i now do the same for my RM campaign (although finding magic items is rare).

I also award XP for good role-playing and clever resourceful ideas/problem solving.innovative use of skills/spells etc.