Author Topic: Leaping attacks  (Read 2807 times)

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Offline providence13

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Leaping attacks
« on: May 06, 2009, 07:39:53 PM »
Would "charging" apply to Leaping attacks?

Someone attacking with a Glaive has a special/magic jumping ability; charging rules should be easiest, right.

Priests of Wastri (Greyhawk: frog-worshiping monk types) hate demi-humans (elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes) and love to impale them on a stick.

 Let's say they have Leaping II (2 targets 1 rnd or 1 target 2 rnds) as a 1st lvl spell.
Now someone coming at you with a pointy stick from a 50' lateral leap would hurt as much as being propelled by a horse, I think. (I don't worry too much about Landing. 1 rank of Adrenal Toughness should handle it. Unless they fumble.)

Or consider Leaping, attacking and Leaping away. I guess the problem is % Activity and Combat Phases.
Leaping should use less %Activity than actually running over there to poke them; shouldn't it?

1st Rnd: Cast spell.
2nd Rnd Movement -Leap up to 50' (moving maneuver roll)....20% Activity? (or less)
            Attack- with up to 80%... but Leaping lasts another Rnd. So, attack with 60% and Leap again with 20%?
People can move and attack; so, they can attack and move... right.
 
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Offline markc

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 08:02:46 PM »
 I am no expert on RM's combat system but IMO I would probably have the leap be a 10% action and make the attack the 90% action. I would also not let them do more then a leap and attack or a attack and a leap in 1 round. Because IMO it might unbalance the game depending on what rule set you are using.

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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 08:40:36 PM »
Is the spell an Instantaneous spell? If so, then I agree with markc, otherwise you have to go with the percentage of activity the casting of the spell would cost. But that is only for the round in which they cast the spell, if they get multiple rounds or use out of the spell, then the succeeding rounds would be the 10 jump / 90 attack, I believe. It may depend upon how far they have to jump, but I am not sure.
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 08:38:15 AM »
[errata=Spell Description from Monk's Bridge spell list]
Leaping I - Allows the caster to leap 50' laterally or 20' vertically in the round that the spell is cast.
[/errata]

On the Monk's Bridge spell list (as well as on the other two lists on which it appears), Leaping is an instantaneous spell. Leaping is also a spell that ONLY lasts 1 round.

In RM2 - an instantaneous spell requires 75% activity, just as normal Class I spell. In RM2, an instantaneous spell wasn't really a spell that was cast instantaneously. It was meant as a way to mark/indicate any spell that did not, ever, require preparation rounds like all other spells require.

Another aspect to consider here is the way that the tactical system worked. Under the default tactical system, spells went first, period. So an "instantaneous spell" was a spell that took a round to cast, but went off before all other actions in the round because spells always went off first.

In RMC/X - an instantaneous spell requires 75% activity, just as normal Class I spell. However, RMC/X recommends that the spell is actually cast in the first 10% activity and that the remaining 65% is recovery. RMC/X uses a different tactical system, hence the 10/65% split on casting/recovery, so that instantaneous spells could still go off first.

In RMSS/FRP - an instantaneous spell requires only 10% activity to cast. A major change from RM2, and actually more based on some of the various alternative tactical/initiative systems from the various Companions for RM2.

In all cases, the spell includes a safe landing at the end of the leap.

What our original poster did not indicate was which version of Rolemaster he is using. However, the mention of Adrenal Toughness seems to indicate that he is using RM2 or a variant thereof.

The short answer to the question
Quote
Would "charging" apply to Leaping attacks?
would be, IMO, a "no".

One of the main things about charging is that the speed and movement are lending extra force to the attack. A magical leap doesn't, in any way, add extra speed or movement behind the leap. A leap (50') is the equivalent of how far an average person could walk in 1 round. There is no acceleration or real force behind the leap, IMO.

Also, to avoid a leaping attacker? Take a step to the left, or a jump to the right... :D Simply put, once the leap is started, the leaper cannot change trajectory, thus making it impossible to change where they are going to land (i.e. landing point must be chosen before the leap starts, and if the target moves, the attack is going to miss).

And that doesn't even include the smart PCs who decide to just grab the weapon, and use it to flip the attacker before he even has a chance to land....

Also, there is no "Leaping II" spell that allows affecting multiple targets or lasting multiple rounds.

Instead, my suggestion would be to require the priests to have ranks in acrobatics (don't rely on spells or magic for this), and then allow them to make "charging" attacks that are comprised of leaps and jumps, etc - acrobatic maneuvers....

In fact, a successful acrobatics roll could allow them to charge without losing any DB (see RMC Arms Law, Chapter 3), and perhaps give them a bonus of +1 per rank of Acrobatics to the OB of the charge.

Offline RandalThor

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 06:56:33 PM »
Take a step to the left, or a jump to the right... :D

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Offline yammahoper

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 10:08:46 PM »
Quote
One of the main things about charging is that the speed and movement are lending extra force to the attack. A magical leap doesn't, in any way, add extra speed or movement behind the leap. A leap (50') is the equivalent of how far an average person could walk in 1 round. There is no acceleration or real force behind the leap, IMO.

i DISAGREE WITH THIS.   Damn caplocks.  You can tell I look at my keyboard when i type, can't ya?  Laugh it up fuzzball.

Using RMFRP combat, If the spell allows the caster to leap the entire distance as a snap action, then 50' is being covered in 2seconds, and that is pretty fast compared to someone standing still ready to fight.

15' per second equals 1mph in RM 10 second rounds.

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Offline providence13

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2009, 10:13:04 AM »
Thanks for the input and experience everyone.
Charging isn't best; but help with machanics is appreciated!
My mistake guys. Leaping II is instant. But it is still "target may leap 50' or 20' in the round it is cast" + 1 rnd.;D I am using Instants are 10% Activity. 1 spell/rnd. 1 attack/rnd. I didn't consider this spell to be too crazy; Spell Mastery or Extension could give similar results.

Yammahoper, that's the physics I was thinking.
A 17 mph impact of evil frog priest and pike should be really fast and really hurt.
This also would handle the dodgy "dodging" issue. Hope that Adrenal Defense is pretty high! This guy is technically a missile.

It is true that Acrobatics might fit best. Kittens can make mid-air coarse corrections. Unless they're in heavy plate armor! Why not Priests? Think Toad Changeling Priest with Monk frosting; not Monk Priest with Toad frosting.

Another problem comes from Press and Melee (1/2 OB?) and React and Melee(-10 OB?). Leaping is just Movement right...
Wouldn't Leaping still be 10% movement in rnd 2 (or 3,4,5 with higher lvl spells). Is any single target within 50' "adjacent"?
Oh yeah.. Best initiative states actions last; if it matters.

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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2009, 10:35:51 AM »
Quote
It is true that Acrobatics might fit best. Kittens can make mid-air coarse corrections. Unless they're in heavy plate armor! Why not Priests? Think Toad Changeling Priest with Monk frosting; not Monk Priest with Toad frosting.

Cats can do that because of the way that their skin is attached to their bodies.

Leaping as movement -- you have to decide how much time a leap takes. With spells taking only 10% activity, that means that the leap could take anywhere up to 90% activity for the round, and that kind of alters the whole distance/speed dynamic discussion from before.

The problem with the Leaping spells is that they do NOT indicate how long it would take to accomplish the leap, which makes all assumptions about the "speed" of the leap be based on nothing more than what. The spell gives the ability to make the leap (the extraordinary distance of the leap), but IMO, the leap still takes activity.

A non-magical jump/leap would take a full round, regardless of the distance. The leap allowed by the spell should be treated the same way. Otherwise you are granting a LOT of extra power to a relatively low level spell. A first level spell (the Leaping spell from the Monk Base List) suddenly becomes a major boost to OB? Very very dangerous!!


BTW, what list is Leaping II from? It isn't on any of the core Spell Law lists.

sigh..... someday, we really really need to go through every spell and every word of RM to fix all of these little issues which result from changes made to the system over time (i.e. the wording of the spell is from back in RM2 when spells went off first, and then actions were performed...).

Offline providence13

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Re: Leaping attacks
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2009, 10:57:15 AM »
Thanks for the info, buddy!
Rasyr, the spell is a personal mod for a conversion from an AD&D unpopular Greyhawk Demi-God, Wastri.
The spell doesn't exist in any sanctioned product for RM.
I had posted some conversion notes along with quickly written spell lists and just wanted some help with the mechanics.

This system is the best system. It makes other game ideas even better; which is why it was designed in the first place, right? (Get Real! Get Rolemaster!)

You seem to know a lot about cats!......... :D
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