Topic: Attacking specific parts of the body

[apituluaheb]

Is there any system that allows to attack specific parts of the body? Like hands, feet, arms, neck etc
Along with the critic chart that goes with it?  It would be interesting if for example hands are much harder to aim to than the body. You could never kill someone just by hurting his hand, perhaps critics 66 and 90 and above could amputate the hand. Know anything that would help?? If you look at it from an strategic perspective it could be AWESOME. ( i am spanish by the way so sorry for my english!  )
Thanks!

[markc]

No there is no chart or rules for what you are talking about that I know of.


Welcome to the ICE Forums and your English is very very good.


MDC

[Zat]

RM2 Arms Companion offered something called 'Strategic Targeting'. These are rules that allow targeting of specific parts of the body with a (kind of) crit table thrown in. Be warned though, these are not the best thought out rules I have experienced in Rolemaster.

[Zedul]

Ah the "called shot" system.

In the past my players have always argued that they should be able to do this.  My counter argument is that when you are engaged in mortal combat the attacker is taking the most open opportunity to strike at a weak point in the defenses.  Doing a called shot isn't exactly useful in combat.

Imagine a heavyweight fight with two boxers in the ring - one boxer is using normal tactics and the other has decided "hey I am going to punch him in the nose"  - by putting all his focus there he is missing opportunities to get in good shots elsewhere and also leaving himself open to absolute defeat as any smart opponent would be able to see that he is over focusing.

It's the same as an NFL Quarterback "staring down" a receiver... it usually ends up in a pick 6.

The only time I allow called shots is when there is an overwhelming advantage of one opponent over the other.

[apituluaheb]

Ah the "called shot" system.

In the past my players have always argued that they should be able to do this.  My counter argument is that when you are engaged in mortal combat the attacker is taking the most open opportunity to strike at a weak point in the defenses.  Doing a called shot isn't exactly useful in combat.

Imagine a heavyweight fight with two boxers in the ring - one boxer is using normal tactics and the other has decided "hey I am going to punch him in the nose"  - by putting all his focus there he is missing opportunities to get in good shots elsewhere and also leaving himself open to absolute defeat as any smart opponent would be able to see that he is over focusing.

It's the same as an NFL Quarterback "staring down" a receiver... it usually ends up in a pick 6.

The only time I allow called shots is when there is an overwhelming advantage of one opponent over the other.

Seriously it would be awesome!! You might want to attack someone who´s fleeing from a combat for example, and want to hurt his foot. Ot you might want to "save" a very good attack bonus for an specific blow to the head.
Or just have fun trying to leave an oponent handless!!!
I personally think that it would be key to an advance combat situation.
Actually one of my players is a martial art expert (black belt) and gets MAD when he cannot target what he wants.  We´re not talking about targetting the nose, but maybe bigger and more interestings parts, just like hands, feet, legs, arms, chest and head.
Thanks for the welcoming everyone!

[Old Man]

I used some Ad Hoc rulings in the past where you could try for a certain spot or area and if you got a critical, I would move it to affect that area (with possibly different attendant results). But otherwise, no "called shots" per se (but "Aiming" rules of ROCO VII was it? Grey Worlds? are similar).

Ciao,
Old Man

[Vector Z]

I'm agreeing with Zedul here. This used to drive me crazy when players asked for this. But combat is just like Zedul was saying. It's not just "swing! swing! swing!". I assume that a lot is going on in that 10 second round: some footwork, feinting, adjusting your grip, ducking, etc. To me, a character's OB reflects their skill at fighting with that weapon, which boils down to a lot more than how hard you can swing it. Ultimately, any successful attack and criticals achieved is the culmination of this action and skill, when an opportunity to strike finally presents itself and the attacker has the wherewithall to seize it! And if no lethal attack was possible, a skilled fighter will weaken his opponent with the most effective strike available.

So, in comes the called shot. Usually goes something like this: "I want to hit him in the head!" (personally, I've never heard anybody call anything but the head), the common belief usually being that it should be harder to achieve but more damage delivered if successful... or something.

So here's what I hear when players use a called shot: "I don't want any criticals that aren't on the head!" So that critical that sent that guy's hand flying off? Sorry, not the head, didn't happen, no damage, no crit

This explanation usually cures this whole called shot nonsense

[Marc R]

One house rule we used that worked was to allow people to reduce the critical by up to the ranks they have in a weapon. . .if there was a critical within that range that affected the body part they wanted, then they made the shot. . .this didn't work for head-shotting a target since the head results mostly sit at 98-00, but it worked for aiming to knock something out of someone's hand, or to chop the arm/hand of the giant squishing your friend, etc.

(Didn't allow this mechanism to shift down to 66, unlike ambush)

[apituluaheb]

Aren´t role games supose to be as close to reality as possible??
Then why not allow people to aim to different things?

Ok, i am gonna try to make a critic chart along with some table... we ll see the result.. i might upload it for you to see, though it might take me a while to do it.

Any advice is more than welcome!!!

[DangerMan]

Aren´t role games supose to be as close to reality as possible??

Nope! I can assure you, if the game I'm GMing was anything like my life, or reality in general, the players would flee in a split second..

From jokes to guns*; Trying to make RM approach reality more than the RAW has already done has destroyed quite a few sessions for my part. Then again, if everyone around the table is on the same page, theres no problem..

(*That Norwegian saying didnt work out too well in english...)

[Vector Z]

I'm siding with Dangerman on this one. An RPG doesn't have to accurately reflect reality. It only has to be fun

The situation with the giants I would consider to be an exception, solely due to size difference. Any creature big enough to pick up a man with one hand would certainly take crits on the Large or Superlarge tables. As I recall, most of these crits are just extra damage and not location specific. I would allow targetting to some extent in this case, especially for ranged attacks, as this is not what I would consider "ordinary combat".

[Kristen Mork]

From jokes to guns*

(*That Norwegian saying didnt work out too well in english...)

With alliteration:
From wits to weapons?
From puns to pistols?

[DangerMan]

From jokes to guns*

(*That Norwegian saying didnt work out too well in english...)

With alliteration:
From wits to weapons?
From puns to pistols?

Ah! Much better! Thanks! Have a "linguistics point"! 

[GrumpyOldFart]

The way I put it to my players was to ask, if during that 10 seconds you don't get a decent shot at _____, are you going to just parry or are you gonna take whatever presents itself?

The decision of where you hit him isn't solely up to you. You can't get that shot unless you can successfully draw your opponent into participating in it, and giving you that opening.

[RandalThor]

I look at combat (and all other aspects of the game) like this: What is it you* are trying to achieve?

If you are just trying to kill them, then the regular attack/combat rules is how we go about it. If you want a specialized effect, say putting your arrow through your opponents weapon arm in order inhibit his combat capabilities, then I would hand out a negative modifier (not very light, depending upon the results wanted and action undertaken) and you would go about making your attack (or skill check, whichever). How well you do, determines how well you do. If you get a roll over and finish with a total of 287, then I would adjust the critical to reflect the desired affect. (In this case, very likely you pierced his arm in such a way as to make it impossible to use, as well as delivering stun/bleeding/etc...)

The tables aren't sacrosanct. It is the desired effect and success "grade" that matter.

*Whoever is performing the action at hand.

[Setorn]

While I agree that called shots are problematic, it does make a Highlander like setting very difficult.
.

[GrumpyOldFart]

While I agree that called shots are problematic, it does make a Highlander like setting very difficult.

So it does, but it's difficult to solve the problems of called shots unless your combat system takes tactics and psychology of the combatants into account. The bottom line is that where you hit him isn't solely up to you, unless he's basically helpless. Even someone bound and gagged can make his attacker's shot go awry, that's why torturer's chairs have all those straps and things on them.

I want called shots as much as anyone, I just don't see any way to do it without making the mechanic acknowledge the attacker (who called the shot) having to basically trick the defender into giving him the opening in order for the called shot to land.

[Vector Z]

Well if you're doing Highlander, you could just rule that the killing blow is always a decapitation, regardless of what the crit says

Such a setting would be another exception I think, as decapitation is central to the plot

[Marc R]

I've done highlander, and I think perhaps 2 people ever got decapitated in combat, all the rest got put down by a mortal blow then decapitated while unconscious on the floor. . .much like it's easier to down the undead with weapons, then burn the bodies after combat, than to try beating them to death with a torch.

[ob1knorrb]

I think called shots would be more important in something like a modern day Zombie apocalypse setting where players would be wanting to go for a head shot using a gun or something similiar