Author Topic: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?  (Read 6601 times)

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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 01:47:21 AM »
I prefer RMFRP mostly because it's the version I started with (the German versions from 13Mann), and they look so much nicer than the other books published, I sort of went with them. I skimmed through RMC and haven't ever seen any RMSS books, and wasn't as impressed. But to be honest, the choice was pretty arbitrary. I think the only thing that needed to be done was to make a choice; and I went with RMFRP.


If there is a new edition, I hope it's a continuation of RMFRP.

Offline arcadayn

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 03:03:31 PM »
I enjoy both systems quite a bit.  However, overall, I have to give the edge to RMSS.  I really like the skill system.  After you figure it out, the category system is very flexible.  Culling the skill list down is something I considered to be standard procedure from the beginning.  RMSS is a toolkit.  ICE was really going for the universal system concept at the time, so they went with the kitchen sink.

I was also one of the ones who started with RM2 (MERP prior to that) and moved to RMSS when it came out.

The only things I like from RMFRP are SOHK and CL. I'm not a fan of presenting a cut down version of the system in the core book.  While I do see the utility of having separate books for each school of magic, having them in one book is far more useful.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 05:51:09 PM »
My players and I found RMSS/FRP just too overwhelming. Keep in mind, this is the same group that accepted the rule changes through RM1 to RM1 plus a bunch of house rules that pretty much grew into RM2 before I ever saw an RM2 book. But in fairness, I also have to admit that the gaming group went to the four winds not long after that, so it's not as if we ever truly gave it a fair test.

Because of that, all I have with RMSS/FRP is an impression, as opposed to a history. That impression is something like yours would be if this post took up about a foot of page length, and had no spaces between paragraphs. The sheer intimidation factor of the wall of text lowers your chances of getting anything useful out of the information. Whether there's anything worth reading here or not, the chances of you staying with it long enough to spot it go down. Same thing with the wall of rules. Until you get past that intimidation factor, as a newbie you tend to feel like the designers deliberately made the learning curve steeper.

From what little I checked into RMSS/FRP (mostly in search of things that could be converted to RM2), there are a lot of things in it I like. I suspect a lot of the concepts crossed over into HARP, which is what I currently play. So far as I can tell its only major weakness as a game system is the "wall of rules" intimidation factor, doubtless the same thing that gave it the nickname "RuleMonster".

Quote
I really like the skill system.  After you figure it out, the category system is very flexible.  Culling the skill list down is something I considered to be standard procedure from the beginning.  RMSS is a toolkit.  ICE was really going for the universal system concept at the time, so they went with the kitchen sink.
I'm all in favor of universal and modular, but the reason you can build such complex structures from Legos is because the individual Lego block is so simple.

I suspect the game I'd actually like to see is somewhere midway between RMSS and HARP, rather than between any 2 versions of RM. Ah well, that's what house rules are for, so you can override the Gods and get the game you wanted.

 ;D
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Offline Zedul

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2011, 07:29:01 PM »
RM/RM 2 by a wide margin.  My only complaint was the excessive character classes  (crystal mage, houri, really?)

The perfect example of the difference of the two systems is the paladin spell Retributive Strike.

The RM 2 spell was extremely potent, which was warranted considering the Player Character was giving up his life, going kamikaze and channeling the power of the gods for one last blaze of glory.

The RMSS version of said spell is no more fantastic than the fireball of a level 20 magician.  Not exactly an ample reward for your sacrifice, from a paladin's perspective.

I believe that games are a compromise between the GM trying to hold together world balance, and players trying to achieve their own unique dreams.  If the players rule the day, inflation takes hold and the next thing you know everyone has a +300 sword.  If GM's run their ship too tight then suddenly your players will get "busy with real life" and won't have the time to game anymore.  The idea of gaming is fun, but it's an experience they can live without...

On the other hand, if your game runs the opposite you end up with my current problem.  Running such an open ended RM2 system requires a huge commitment of time from the GM.  It can be a drain.  Add to that the demands and questions of several engaged players and your work and life can become compromised.  Players are being left out because I simple cannot accommodate all the people at the table, which is astounding considering they are all flying from across the country to play here.  It is difficult to tell a friend  "I am so sorry, but we simply have no room for you at the next session..." how do you not invite someone you've known for over a decade who really wants to play and is willing to fork out a thousand bucks to get here?  Not fun at all.  I was considering expanding my sessions to 2 or even 3 separate groups before my wife had to pull me aside and explain that I had lost my freaking mind, and that the time I was putting into the game as opposed to working on my photography or my novel, or spending time with her, was already excessive.  That's the other edge of the sword when the game is going really well: GM burnout.

Anyway, back to the shadows go I.

I only check the forums once a month, and rarely post anymore because of the above reasons, and because my methods and unique viewpoints seemed to upset the local applecart.  Once you start to see torches and pitchforks, its best to pick up your toys and go play somewhere else. ;)

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2011, 02:07:58 AM »
Biggest reason I don't play online games.  I love em and I think they are worth it when you consider what I might spend on 'offline' games... but the time you need/want to put into them just isn't realistic when you have an actual full life (Job, Family, other hobbies, etc).
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Offline ToM

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2011, 06:40:45 AM »
Played both for a long time, and finished up preferring RMSS over RM2.
We played at the time with my old group a very customized version of RM2, which ended up being less than balanced and controllable.
After RMSS book came out in mid '90s, we strarted introducing some elements from them and found the system was more compact yet still flexible. RM finally had the whole comprehensive revision that made it into a full game system rather than a bunch of books and supplements from a half-game originally conceived to be an alternate combat/magic system for AD&D 1st edition! Also agree that many of those ideas went straight into HARP.

Personally likes which IMHO made RMSS/FRP far superior to RM2:

  • Skill system. Love those skill categories.
  • Stat system. Having stat bonus computed that way really gave more granularity to the way stats influence the system.
  • Profession + Training Package system. Open ups endless opportunity for customization, character concept building, throwing away at the same time all those unneeded professions from RM2.
  • Talents/Flaws system: much more flexible and balanced than RM2 background picks.
  • And AH! Those sweet sweet Essence, Arcane, Channeling, Mentalism and MA Companions...  :)
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2011, 07:28:09 AM »
I like RMX better than both; mostly due to time constraints and the fact that the EAs expanded it with some really great material.  Purchase-able PPs and Static Hit Point development are great. 
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2011, 08:10:46 AM »
Also agree that many of those ideas went straight into HARP.

Skill system. Love those skill categories.

This is one of them that didn't go into HARP that I think perhaps should have. Something simple, like instead of just being able to progress by +5/+2/+1 in the skill, you can choose to spend the same DPs and progress +1 in the category.
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Offline Mordenkainen

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2011, 08:29:54 AM »
Played both for a long time, and finished up preferring RMSS over RM2.
We played at the time with my old group a very customized version of RM2, which ended up being less than balanced and controllable.
After RMSS book came out in mid '90s, we strarted introducing some elements from them and found the system was more compact yet still flexible. RM finally had the whole comprehensive revision that made it into a full game system rather than a bunch of books and supplements from a half-game originally conceived to be an alternate combat/magic system for AD&D 1st edition! Also agree that many of those ideas went straight into HARP.

Personally likes which IMHO made RMSS/FRP far superior to RM2:

  • Skill system. Love those skill categories.
  • Stat system. Having stat bonus computed that way really gave more granularity to the way stats influence the system.
  • Profession + Training Package system. Open ups endless opportunity for customization, character concept building, throwing away at the same time all those unneeded professions from RM2.
  • Talents/Flaws system: much more flexible and balanced than RM2 background picks.
  • And AH! Those sweet sweet Essence, Arcane, Channeling, Mentalism and MA Companions...  :)

It's taken a long, long time for me to come around (15 years!), but I have to agree with you on most of those points. RMSS is a fantastic, coherent system, and at this point I prefer it to any other version. I think I've got all the books now except the MAC.


Offline smug

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2011, 01:55:21 PM »
I like RMX better than both; mostly due to time constraints and the fact that the EAs expanded it with some really great material.  Purchase-able PPs and Static Hit Point development are great.

Yeah, I think that it's a pretty extraordinary achievement, RMX.

Offline Marc R

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2011, 08:04:39 PM »
Thanks, it was a lot of effort.
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Offline smug

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2011, 08:40:19 PM »
Thanks, it was a lot of effort.

No, thanks to you guys. Distilled Rolemaster goodness (currently lacking the Additions, about which I like to complain, but it's an awesome capsule game).

Offline Marc R

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2011, 08:59:22 PM »
Find cormac and thank him too, he really busted his arse on that one.
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Offline pastaav

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 11:04:26 AM »
I think I am in the minority as I started with RM2 and while playing in a RM2 game I picked up RMSS as I had trouble finding the RM2 books. After reading the books I found the RMSS system better to my needs and desires.

Ditto.
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Offline smug

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 01:20:06 PM »
Find cormac and thank him too, he really busted his arse on that one.

Thankyou Cormac!

Cormac still posts here, right?

Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 01:23:40 PM »
Yes, he posted earlier today in a HARP SF thread...
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Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 01:36:25 PM »
I hang around here like a bad smell :)

thanks!

Offline VladD

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2011, 06:04:21 PM »
MERP > RM1 > RM2 > RMFRP was my route and I felt it was the natural way of going about it. Every next system had significant improvements over the previous one. RM1 had more spells and skills and professions than MERP. RM2 had even more skills and spells and professions than RM1 but too much powercreep. Now I'm at RMFRP (having missed the RMSS days due to a detour via the Coast ;) ) and I think its a real pretty, tight system, with all the basics and advanced stuff covered, especially if you use some companions on the side.
For me the big problem before RMFRP was that the player's characters could get out of hand pretty quick. Focusing on a few skills and stacking with spells; character would soon be too much to handle, especially with bigger groups, which have PLENTY of resources.
The problem most people perceive in RMFRP is the wide array of skills, but that is just the thing RM needed to make characters more balanced; spending too much focusing on a certain skill path to really excel at other paths (stealth vs attack strength vs spell casting vs nature using, etc). Although I did not really check out RMSS and RMC (I've read them over once) I feel RMFRP is an improved version of RMSS and RMC is the kneefall to players who dig RM2, so I'm seeing no real solutions for the powercreep in it.

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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2011, 06:14:20 AM »
I love RMSS/RMFRP.  Some of my best gaming experiences were achieved using that system.  Unfortunately, time constraints drew me away from RM, until years later I rediscovered the game through RMX.

I had hooked up with a bunch of younger folks playing D&D, and when it came my turn to run a game, I wanted to rock their RPG minds....so, I started exploring RM as an option and found RMX.  I felt the smaller package and stripping away the options made RMX a more cohesive game to play for weekending & to use to introduce new players to RM. 

The price; and the EAs were huge factors too.  I also asked the group to buy books to contribute (not that i needed them) but this resulted in them shopping the ICE website....a good thing.


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Offline RandalThor

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Re: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2011, 12:40:47 PM »
I tend to go with RMSS/FRP because I like the variety offered, but I have been lately liking the slightly simpler RMC. (Now if I can only get the Armsmaster ported over to RMC....)
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