Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: B Hanson on July 21, 2016, 10:32:58 AM
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Hurin gave me a kick in the ass so I thought I would start putting up our Project BASiL Mentalism spells while Priest-King is in edit/review and I've got some down-time in the summer doldrums.
Like Essence, we've organized our Mentalism spells by category we refer to as "Disciplines" (higher and lower) with some basic spell lists that act as "Open" if you will. These basic/Open lists only go to 10th lvl due to their less powerful nature. I'm not going to put them up in any particular order like I did with Essence or Channelling; I'm just going to pick away starting with the ones that need less clean up.
Mentalism Disciplines (Base Categories) are Body Enchancement, Clairavoyance, Glamours, Mesmerization, Mind Control, Mind Defense, Precognition, Pyschokinesis, Pyrokinesis, Sense Projection, Subterfuge, Telepathy. Note that these are categories and most have at least 2 lists. For example Body Enhancement has the lists Body Control, Self Augment, Combat Enhancement, Self Healing, Body Shifting. (some of these need some name changes but you get the idea).
I was thinking of putting up our spell casting rules, but most people are pretty set on using standard or home rules I don't see the point in throwing yet another rule option in the mix. Although we use a "No Profession" ruleset that allows access to any and all of the "realms" I've still left them generally organized in the basic Open/Closed/Base in the event of publication.
Note: If you are viewing this as a "Guest" on the forums you won't be able to see the download files. Join the Forums!!
For our Essence lists: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16681.0 (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16681.0)
For our Channeling lists: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16688.0 (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16688.0)
Once I'm done with Mentalism I still have Investiture (imbedding magic), Notational(written magic) and Rendering (performance magic) to go up. There is still A LOT of spells to go. I think we are up over 5000 individual spells with much less redundancy than spell law. Our "Incidental" magic (cantrips) is already up on the Shadow World Forums here: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=15879.msg194141#msg194141 (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=15879.msg194141#msg194141)
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Here are a couple of "Closed" spell lists that we've had great success with in our own campaign. The first, Absorption, allows the Mentalist/caster to absorb skill abilities from the target. How cool is that? I think this was touched upon a bit in RMU in a spell list but not full explored. My players have had great fun with it and due to the duration and our casting mechanisms never have had any balance issues. Plus the "Mentalist" has amazing utility with this list.
The second is "Mind Lore". This was a distillation of various Spell Law lists, Loremaster lists down to the spells that I thought had real game utility. Plus it works great when you have a long campaign and players can't be expected to memorize every detail they encounter, or miss obvious clues because it's been 3 months since the last session. Mind Lore allows me to re-introduce important narrative material via spells.
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Looking forward to seeing the files when they are approved.
Thanks again for posting these; they are truly great!
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re: to various messages. Once I finish up the Charon spell lists in the SW forums I'll be back to putting up Mentalism spells (and a handful of Essence).
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Ok, I'm going to get back to Mentalism right after the New England Patriots win the Superbowl this coming weekend. (if they lose I'll still do it since I'll lock myself into a room with whiskey and computer). I've received a bunch of messages on these--if anyone has any particular lists/disciplines they want to see first I can focus on that. Unlike Channeling and Essence, Mentalism needs a lot more work since I changed our Mentalism casting rules a few years back to require concentration throughout the spell effects. However, I'm going to use the original durations so they are more easily incorporated with official rule sets.
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I'd like to see any list for any semi profession of Mentalism. The great thing about Mentalism is that it is not inhibited by body armor, which makes it good for semis; but none of the existing RMU classes really take advantage of this. So I'd like to see any lists of the sort that the old RM2 Mentalism semis had: e.g. Arms Master, Noble Warrior, etc.
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Ok, here are the first group of Mentalism spells from the BASiL project. Keep in mind that I organize them by "Disciplines", not by profession driven base lists. These are all modification of self spells. Some are good for Monks, some maybe for Mystics or Nightblades. It's easy to mix and match to create Profession assigned base lists. I'm still not including the spell notes but happy to answer any questions.
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Overall, they are a lot of fun. Thanks for posting them!
A few notes:
--There is no spell for level 6 on the Self Weapon List.
--The power level of some spells is arguably too great. In particular, I am thinking of the first spell, 'Non Fatigue', on the Self Control list. Making the caster immune to fatigue penalties for 1 min/level is exceptionally powerful for a caster in RMU, since fatigue penalties are the main limitation on the speed of prepping spells. If one is immune to fatigue, one can cast spells with much less prep.
--History points for adding in Stoicism references!
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In particular, I am thinking of the first spell, 'Non Fatigue', on the Self Control list. Making the caster immune to fatigue penalties for 1 min/level is exceptionally powerful for a caster in RMU, since fatigue penalties are the main limitation on the speed of prepping spells. If one is immune to fatigue, one can cast spells with much less prep.
We're removing that, so that particular aspect will be moot. I only gave the lists a quick look, there might be other issues.
One thing that did jump out at me was that durations of 1 min/lvl are good for combat spells (e.g. those size modifiers) but seem low when using change self type spells for disguise, infiltration, and other non-combat oriented purposes.
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In particular, I am thinking of the first spell, 'Non Fatigue', on the Self Control list. Making the caster immune to fatigue penalties for 1 min/level is exceptionally powerful for a caster in RMU, since fatigue penalties are the main limitation on the speed of prepping spells. If one is immune to fatigue, one can cast spells with much less prep.
We're removing that, so that particular aspect will be moot.
And there was much rejoicing!
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So, I'm posting up more Mentalism spells: Telekinesis shortly.
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Great Work Hanson - appreciation
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Brian just writing to let you know that posting telekenisis can no longer be considered shortly
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Ha! Sorry, been busy with real life and just barely keeping up with rolemasterblog work. I have a TON of material ready to go when my schedule frees up.
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Hi Brian, any chance you'll be posting your Mentalism lists soon?
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Hopefully I can continue to get a few up per week with my schedule! This is "Subtle Touch", one of the lists from the Mentalism "Psychokinesis" category. The spells use very light telekinesis adjustments for effect.
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Subtle Touch looks like a very fun list.
The level 7 spell, Interrupt though: does it add a penalty to a spell fumble roll, or force a fumble roll? A little more clarity might help with that one.
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The first "Interrupt" just requires an RR that will cause spell failure. The upper level one does the same but adds a penalty to the fumble roll.
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Here is the next list from the "Psychokinesis" spell group Mentalism.
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Psychokinesis feels pretty narrow to me, although in fairness that's also true of RM's Telekinesis list (just with different effects).
Subtle Hand is fun, but -- and I hardly ever say this -- seems underpowered.
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Yes, I have it as a "lesser discipline" in my campaign so it was originally meant to be a minor list. However, while it seems underpowered, the spell effects are intentionally meant to be unnoticed/undetected by the target so that gives it quite a bit of utility. (I don't include any of my spell notes with any of the lists but they will be included when I put it all together in one book).
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Still need to fill a few spell slots. Only one more from list from this group!
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I love several things about this list. I like the thematic unity; I like that it gives more decent, low-level attack spells; and I like that it fits right into Mentalism, flavor-wise.
I'm not sure I would want the Hurling line of spells to be instantaneous though. Hurling can be quite a powerful effect -- if I understand it correctly, a Hurling II spell could hurl a two-handed weapon, and attack on the weapon's chart with the caster's Directed Spell OB? That seems like the type of spell that should not be instantaneous, or else one could get a full melee attack and a full (instant) spell attack in the same round (in RMU at least).
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Plus as written you can use Hurling to disarm a foe (they get an RR) and then if the RR is failed attack them with it, all as the same instantaneous action. That does seem a bit much. I think it would be ok as a base list for a pure caster, since you normally only get one spell per round and they are not going to be great at melee, but these lists are intended to be more general than that. Compare to shock bolt, which is the same level on a base list, not instant, can't disarm (but does have better range of 100' vs 50' here).
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Last list from Psychokinesis: Matter Manipulation.
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I like the liquify spells distinguishing liquification from melting. It's physics-defying which feels properly magical. It leaves a lot to the GM to decide for the organic one, though. If you liquify a tree and pour it into a mold and solidify it, do you get an item that is structurally wood (with grain, burls, etc) or has it just become some kind of organic plastic? I like the former interpretation better myself.
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2 out of 3 lists: Sensory Riding and Sense Projection. There is 1 more: Self Projection I'll post up in the next few days.
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Last list for the "Mental Projection" discipline: Self Projection. Needs some work, but actually had a player that took it and had a blast with the 5th and 8th lvl spell.
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Might be good to add some spells for detecting projections and banishing them back to their bodies or even attack and trap them (at high levels) or some way to project yourself and/or others so you can fight other projections. That would also be a good way to balance the power of otherwise undetectable scouts.
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Might be good to add some spells for detecting projections and banishing them back to their bodies or even attack and trap them (at high levels) or some way to project yourself and/or others so you can fight other projections. That would also be a good way to balance the power of otherwise undetectable scouts.
is this not covered by dispel/cancel/sense/detect Mentalism ?
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Detect. Cancel is for incoming spells, so no. Dispel, maybe? Is the spell on the projection, the body, or both?
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Detect. Cancel is for incoming spells, so no. Dispel, maybe? Is the spell on the projection, the body, or both?
yes i know this depends upon world style, imho the dispel will either attack the
- spell link/matrix or thread (Earthdown style)
- arcane connection (Ars Magica style)
- silver cord ? (OOBE style)
nonetheless i like the lists
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Sorry for the delay in responding to various comments! A bit hectic with the pandemic.
"I'm not sure I would want the Hurling line of spells to be instantaneous though. Hurling can be quite a powerful effect -- if I understand it correctly, a Hurling II spell could hurl a two-handed weapon, and attack on the weapon's chart with the caster's Directed Spell OB? That seems like the type of spell that should not be instantaneous, or else one could get a full melee attack and a full (instant) spell attack in the same round (in RMU at least)."
First, all Mentalist spells in BASiL are instantaneous, but that is easily changed by the GM. (This isn't explained in the spell lists--but will be in the final version of d100 BASiL.). Second, yes, the spell attacks on the appropriate weapon chart using the directed spell bonus. I see no logical fallacies with this.
"as written you can use Hurling to disarm a foe (they get an RR) and then if the RR is failed attack them with it, all as the same instantaneous action. That does seem a bit much. I think it would be ok as a base list for a pure caster, since you normally only get one spell per round and they are not going to be great at melee, but these lists are intended to be more general than that. Compare to shock bolt, which is the same level on a base list, not instant, can't disarm (but does have better range of 100' vs 50' here)."
I have no problem with a spell having a tertiary effect. (ie the spell hurling may also create a disarm effect). For instance a Fire Bolt or Fire Ball should have a substantial effect on worn equipment and/or breakage. Other spells might have an effect on fatigue. If the issue is with it's instantaneous effects, I allow all Mentalism spells to be instantaneous. They have MANY other limitations. If it's being compared to RM, BASiL is an easy improvement, if it's comparison to RMU it's irrelevant. I posted all of Essence and Channeling around the same time as RMU Spell Law Beta1 came out. I'm not sure picking out one or two "issues" makes for relevant criticism--this is meant to be amateur submissions just like other proposals in Guild Companion, Rolemaster Ring or all other online fan sites and similar contributors.
"I like the liquify spells distinguishing liquification from melting. It's physics-defying which feels properly magical. It leaves a lot to the GM to decide for the organic one, though. If you liquify a tree and pour it into a mold and solidify it, do you get an item that is structurally wood (with grain, burls, etc) or has it just become some kind of organic plastic? I like the former interpretation better myself."
You touch upon a significant issue: spell effect descriptions. If they are too open, it allows for broad interpretation. If they are too specific, they seem to "physics" and lack a magical wonder that appeals to you. I have no answer to you for that. Interpret based on your setting--we had to do that even in the original RM.
"Might be good to add some spells for detecting projections and banishing them back to their bodies or even attack and trap them (at high levels) or some way to project yourself and/or others so you can fight other projections. That would also be a good way to balance the power of otherwise undetectable scouts."
Counter spells or detecting spells should be contained in another spell list. Otherwise you have cancelling abilities between the same type of casters and lack of specialization. I prefer the idea of specialized abilities and specialized counter-abilities.
"is this not covered by dispel/cancel/sense/detect Mentalism ?"
Yes.While I removed the realm specificity for detecting, cancelling and countering, those types of spells would be applicable--again depending on the setting.
"yes i know this depends upon world style, imho the dispel will either attack the
spell link/matrix or thread (Earthdown style)
arcane connection (Ars Magica style)
silver cord ? (OOBE style)"
Yes! Let's be honest. RM spells are sort of setting specific but create a lot of problems in specific settings. This is good analysis!
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2 spell lists: Willful Influences and Willful Compulsions. Making some headway, with upcoming categories: Clairvoyance, Glamours, Mind Control, Mind Defense, Precognition, Pyrokinesis & Subterfuge. 27 more mentalism lists that I might pare down with some consolidation.
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I think the issue with Hurling is not so much that it has a tertiary effect, but that it does so much. Attempting to disarm a foe could be considered a 100% action (I think it was in RM2); then attacking with that weapon could be considered another 100% action (it was in RM2); and on top of both of those the caster still has some % activity left in the round (somewhere between 25% and 90%, depending on which version of the RM2 rules you're using). That sure seems like a lot of activity for a single spell. It could be as much as 290%.
I can't quite remember what the other restrictions are on casting Mentalism spells in BASiL, but they would have to be pretty steep for me to consider that balanced.
Just my 2 cents of course.
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Hi Brian, I was wondering whether you were going to post any more BASiL Mentalism lists or collate what you have?
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It's been on the backburner for some time and no one was really pushing him to get them up! It's halfway between two versions but I really should finalize it to move on the next project!
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I'm still looking forward to them!
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I always appreciate new spell lists!
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This list needs some work, but I put it together quickly for an NPC the group was going to encounter. It needs some additional mechanics and clarifications--but then again, I'm still revamping BASiL and the Mentalism lists!
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This list needs some work, but I put it together quickly for an NPC the group was going to encounter. It needs some additional mechanics and clarifications--but then again, I'm still revamping BASiL and the Mentalism lists!
nice list, i would rename it Siphon and expand it to all Attributes as well as Corruption, Fate, Luck etc etc.
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Could be a fun list for a Big Bad Evil Guy to have when the party confront him in his lair, if he had a prisoner (or one of the party members) immobilized on an altar in front of him.
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That's close to what I had--the bad guy was grabbing civilians and draining them of attributes. I use "stats as skills" so the bump to the temp stat does have game play benefit. Still playing around with the stress critical impact on that though.
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Time to finish up BASiL Mentalism. Attached is "Projection" (version 3) which is a merge of Sense Projection and Self Projection that I posted earlier in this thread. There was some redundancy and empty slots and I thought it worked better combined. Next up are Subterfuge lists: Misdirecting Ways and Self Glamour.
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This is neat! Thanks!
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It looks like you attached the previously published Sense Projection not a new version. I downloaded an identical version back in September.
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Your correct, wrong file. Attached.
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I like the combined and less redundant version. A definite improvement.
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Self Glamour. This needs a bit more work but I have a player that has used this so I have some good feedback to fine tune it.
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Misdirecting Ways.
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Concealing Mind