Topic: RM-X (?)

[drsmitty]

I'm new to the forum here and have seen some references to RM-X is some older posts.  Was this a reference to the new RMC, or is this some yet future revision of Rolemaster being contemplated?

[Arioch]

It stands for a future revision of RM. Nothing has been decided about it yet, so it's more a "what if" kind of thing for now...
You can find some topics regarding it here:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=36.0

[David Johansen]

The revision discussions seem to have convinced ICE that run the fan base is too fractured to make a new edition a viable direction in the short term.

Personally I just picked up two copies of RMfrp at The Sentry Box for use with the new campaign I'm planning.

The down side, of course, is that without a big, shiny, new thing ICE will continue to struggle to put product back on the shelves of gaming stores.  That's why I buy hard copy from a brick and mortar store if I can.

Ideally I'd like to see a product more in lines with what the old ICE was hinting at with the Blade Lands line that never saw print.  A new, integrated world and rules package that's compatible with RMSS or RMC.  It might even be possible to do both with some sort of a rank package system and super simplified character generation.  I think it would have to provide more variety and control than Run Out the Guns did though.

hmmm....

[drsmitty]

Wow, yet another version of Rolemaster!  I guess the quest for the "perfect" system never ends....

[David Johansen]

Well, no, not exactly.  RM-X would be an attempt to unite ICE's fractured fanbase.  My guess, given ICE's RMC product line, is that RM-X would probably be closer to RM-2 but with optional rules drawn from RMSS.  For instance the skill category/split would probably show up as an optional level of complexity.  There would likely be some revisions to the combat system and stat range from what I've heard, but a radical departure would just fracture the fan base even more.

In any case it's a big enough project that it won't be coming any time soon.

As for my idea, it runs closer to a series of combined setting / rule books that provide "out of the box play" that's compatible with the current games.  It would give ICE several things I think are very important.

New Material For Fans: First and foremost, as someone who's got most of what's been produced for RMSS and SM:P in dead tree and electronic format.  I'd like to see some new material.  I lean towards setting material because RMSS is so beautifully complete at this point.  Outside of War Law and Sea Law there isn't much I really want to see for rules.

New Products: Gaming companies sell books.  If they don't have new books coming out their market presence fades until they're just one more dusty book on the shelf of shame.  If you've already got your books you probably aren't doing much to keep ICE in business.

The Next Big Thing: The industry turns on big announcements and hype.  Sadly you can't really hype "NO NEW EDITION ANY TIME SOON" to distributors and retailers.  No matter how much the fans like to hear it.

More Active Discussion and Fans: In the age of the internet, gaming companies need active fans.  Over the years I've seen the discussion of RM and ICE slow to a trickle.  Though admittedly it seems to me that gaming discussion on line has declined in general.

Easier Entry Into ICE's Games: Rolemaster's very name strikes dread into the hearts of those who couldn't pass third grade arithmetic if they had to take it today.  A less intimidating point of entry can do a lot of good for a game's fan base.

[Marc R]

My understanding was that RMC was created to bring RM2 back to life, and some of those players back into the fold, and from there create RME to draw in some new blood at the low cost/low complexity end. . . .and then in the future to create RMX to unify RMC and RMFRP and retire or semi-retire both.

Dunno if that still stands.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

It does....

[Setorn]

RMC has brought me back and three new player as well as another old one. 

[Marc R]

welcome back!

[yammahoper]

RMC has brought me back and three new player as well as another old one. 

Really?  Well, that is nice and all, but...

Would you let them play a Doppleganger in your game

lynn

[thrud]

RMC is awsome, I love it. 

[Setorn]

Would you let them play a Doppleganger in your game

Well, no I never let anyone play the Doppelgaenger (Dopp) in my games.  :'( When creating the base lists for the Dopp., I am the one that demanded that there be no useful spells until 6th level and had pushed for more.  I claimed that they could learn other lists to off set the lack of spell power unitl 6th lvl (or higher).  I also demanded the typing spells as a limiter.  We were told the Monte Cook loved the Dopp.  No one really knew who he was then.   

Anyway, I am playing a "back to basics game" with few options.  It is easier to teach the game to the three new players (One experienced gamer, one midland and one who this is his third game system).  I am using only professions from Character Law (someone is playing a Mystic, I never had anyone play a Mystic!).  I will slowly introduce new options and professions as I go along and new materials become available.   

I feel that was the issue I had with RMSS/FR.  It was difficult to teach to others and overwhelmed other players.  It was the only game I even knew where pc's dreaded leveling. A gaming group that I had run called it Accountantmaster. 

Now, I like the detail and had little issues with it and so did my old gaming group up in IN, when it came out.  However, we had been playing RM2 for years.  Yet, the new groups that I founded down here had to learn from scratch and the lack of an intro system made it hard. 

So, as for RMX (back to on topic), if a bridge could be made between RMC and RMFP that might help.  The three core books of RMC (sans options) could be used as the intro system and then bridged over with mostly pdf suppliments.  Kinda like what RME is doing.

As for more on the Dopp. and Shadow mage if anyone wants to start another topic, I can take the abuse, um er, questions.  (I did have someone play the Shadow Mage.) 

[shnar]

I agree with David, the next "version" of RM really shouldn't do anything to the core rules, but rather should be a "setting" version, probably including the RME rules. I suppose this is what the game-that-shall-not-be-named did, and quite frankly is what got me into Rolemaster, the setting not the system. I think the current core rules could stay the way they are for quite a few years (kind of like HERO5 has lasted that system for what 4 years now?), just create a setting that is "new" and can be hyped and make good money for the company.

I'd presonally like to see this setting in the ShadowWorld, since there is already so much there to tap into. Just create a new MasterAtlas but with gaming rules, etc.

And I know with ICE's history, a lot will frown on this, but I also would like to see a licensed setting, since I think that drives a lot of new players more then a "fresh" setting. A lot of people new to roleplaying are wanting to adventure in their favorite books/movies, and that wrapped in the Rolemaster rules means lots of good, fresh gamers who will after using the basic RME rules will want more depth and buy the RMC rules, etc. Course, the question is, which setting?

For Fantasy, I'd love to see David Eddings Belgariad adopted into Rolemaster rules. Plenty of Cultures, Professions, etc. For more modern, I honestly think a Harry Potter setting would fit into Rolemasters world. The spells would just need to be adjusted with latin names. Plus my guess is that kind of license would do well in sales (but it may be one of the harrier licenses, no pun intended, that ICE wants to veer away from).

-shnar

[smug]

I'd love to be able to go back in time and convince David Eddings not to write all that crap in the first place.

Now, Steven Erickson's world (which was designed as a game world, incidentally), that would be something...

[shnar]

To each his own. I'm thinking from a company standpoint, Eddings has a good following of geeks who probably play WOW and would be interested in an RPG set in his world. Also, my *guess* is that this would be a relatively easy license to obtain (but have absolutely no founding for the guess).

But the point is I feel there is a need for RM to be attached to a relatively well known license. I've never heard of Erickson, so I don't know how well it'd do. Maybe latch on to some recent movies, like Eragon?

-shnar

[smug]

I think that the problems with most fantasy worlds being used faithfully for a gaming world is that most of them lack sufficient magic. ICE produced a great game world out of Tolkien's stuff, but they did it by adding a hell of a lot more magic to it.

My interest in Erickson wouldn't be so much on it's fame (he's growing in popularity in the US and is relatively well-known in the UK and Canada already, but he's not a Big Name) but that the world is ideal for rpg -- high magic, lots of mysteries and secrets, huge history, etc. It wouldn't have that 'wow, gotta have it' thing from many fans, though (mind you, that didn't sustain the Wheel Of Tedium d20 game for very long, and the WoT must be the biggest-selling adult fantasy series at the moment, surely).

I should say as well, though, that Shadow World is great. A pity that only Roxanne Longstreet managed to write a decent piece of fiction for it -- a few more of those and it could potentially have gotten something of a following. Longstreet's book, in fact, must be the best novel written about an FRPG, although I appreciate that's damning with the faintest of faint praise.

[shnar]

Not to go on a Tolkien-Magic sidetrack, that's a good point about Wheel of Time. I didn't even know there was a D20 WoT. It might have been d20 that killed it though, since I (and a lot of my friends) refuse to touch anything d20 related (still use the WEG d6 for our StarWars games). But it was probably more likely a mix of lack of advertising, hype, d20, and maybe wrong audience.

Maybe it's the "world" that's more important than the story. One of the things I loved about Tolkien's writings was the world was so rich, I didn't want to replay the books, I just wanted to be in his world (which is what prompted me to buy MERP in the first place). Are there settings like this, that the story is interesting, but so are the locales of the books (another reason I think Eddings would do well, he has a lot of places that could be nicely fleshed out in modules)? And then you have to tack on the demand, is there enough demand to play in such settings to persue a license deal and start making books?

-shnar

[David Johansen]

Personally, RM magic is perfect for Middle Earth.  Seriously, the elves and author might not like calling it magic, but there are guys who can turn into bears, and all sorts of crazy stuff running around out there.

As it happens Rolemaster magic is very weak compared to say, D&D or GURPS.  A Rolemaster fireball doesn't clear a gymnasium.  Even a high level mage will struggle to use telekinesis to move a large man.  Healing spells are fairly ineffective at low levels.  Seriously, scrap the +50 to spell casting static maneuvers and you're as good as there.

Anyhow, I'm going to put together a ten page version of Rolemaster.  It won't be full featured but it'll be playable

I'm figuring
1 page how to play / introduction
1 page core mechanics
1 page combat
3 pages character creation (humans, elves, dwarfs, rogues, mages, clerics)
1 page creatures
1 page attack and critical table (armour types: plate, chain, leather, none)
2 pages spell lists in MERP format

The character creation will use fixed stat bonuses tied to race and provide a skill bonus for the character's profession and level (ie 2 ranks)  There will probably be twenty odd skills.

Combat won't get into percentage activity and I'll probably substitute opposed rolls for resistance rolls.