Topic: Do you think that D&D 4th Edition will be a good thing for H.A.R.P.?

[SamwiseSeven]

Just curious what you guys thought about this.

Here's a link.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204119

[masque1223]

I've been telling people about HARP by describing it as working "almost exactly like D20, except for the parts that suck", so we'll see.  Having finally finished up our 2 year (West End) Star Wars game, we're ready for some fantasy, so now I'll get to run that all-dwarf campaign idea I've been kicking around since I got my copy of HARP.  Two of the guys in my group play D&D with another group, and are constantly bitching about it, so we'll see how they like it.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Just another way for WotC to make money on an old name...


I am not the least bit interested ...

[Quasar]

I certainly don't think it will cause any disgruntled players to jump ship to anything else, they'll just stick with what they currently play. Just like there's still players of earlier versions around.

[lev_lafayette]

I certainly don't think it will cause any disgruntled players to jump ship to anything else, they'll just stick with what they currently play. Just like there's still players of earlier versions around.

Exactly. Amazingly, and with the choice out there, people will play the games they want to.

The greatest challenge to people who are already roleplayers is convincing people to try something other that D&D - and that's always been the #1 problem for producers of alternative systems.

[raven73]

Well, I brought the 3.0 version when It first came out, only to find out that it was obsolete shortly after!! About 2 weeks ago I was pricing up getting the 3.5e game books, to find out that 4.0 was iminent!! So yesterdsay I thought I've had enough and brought H.A.R.P

I decided to no longer be a slave to the D&D regime!!.

Long may H.A.R.P Live.

Raven73

[highpriest_rsw2]

I know a lot of gamers who are not happy with the new 4E D&D idea.
A few have vowed to NEVER buy a WOTC product EVER again!
I think the fact that they killed the paizo magazines lisence and that they've announced 4E means that a lot more gamers will leave WOTC looking for other games.
This could very well work in the favor of other publishers like ICE.
I'm also hoping that it doesn't start really doing away with too many companies if the D20 lisence gets changed. Less people buying WOTC=good. Too many gaming companies going under=bad.
Has anyone heard how this will affect the D20 lisence?

[Zhaleskra]

I've enjoyed D&D in many forms, but I'm not sure where I've settled with 3.0 and 3.5, both of which I feel filled the pot holes of AD&D2E. My age is probably a factor in considering the title juvenile, which is not to say I won't play D&D at all.

One thing I'm doing could be considered "going backwards" because I feel I could get a better Star Wars vibe using Alternity instead of a licensed product. I thought it was complicated when I had a million other things to think about in college, only to crack it open later and have to ask "why did I dismiss this as too complicated?"

In terms of "generic" fantasy systems, there are many systems that I feel do it much better than D&D.

[Quasar]

I know a lot of gamers who are not happy with the new 4E D&D idea.
A few have vowed to NEVER buy a WOTC product EVER again!

Well I heard a lot of the same things when 3.0 was announced.

As for me...I expect I might pick up a PHB, just to check it out and to allow me pickup games should they eventuate and to make it easier to convert anything should I want to use 4.0 material elsewhere.

[Defendi]

1)  You'll be able to do that off the new SRD when it releases.  Just so you know.  I spend more time in the SRD than in the  PHB.  Of course, you'll have to have scanned the PHB at sometime.  Also, you might just prefer a book (I do), I just don't want you smacking your forehead later. 

2)  The latest info coming out of GenCon says the OGL will remain unchanged.  It seems like they intended to charge for the d20 license, but after a round table with the 3rd party guys, are rethinking that (which I think is smart, the customer base knows how to spot a d20 book without the d20 logo).  They say the SRD will release in July with a select group (not yet determined) getting it earlier.

[Dr_Sage]

Well,

I have played DnD for like 20 years now. I started with ADnD and move forward up to 3.5.

I own a lot to that game, specially for the character development and archetypes conceptions. Not to mention Larry Elmore style art.

I believe we all must learn a LOT from WotC, specialy about they text revision and editing, and diagraming of their books. HARP has lots of problems when comes with uniformization of game terms (Ex: Hits, concussion hits, Endurance points etc.).

Mathematicaly speaking the 3.5 is awesome, when compared to other editions of the game.

But I realised DnD 3.5 has become an elaborate Battle Chess Style Game. Curiosly returning to his origin, when it evolved from War Game to Role Playing Game.

The game lost much of his soul, when the DM became a Mediator of rules. In fact the DM became just a story teller, since they have rules for almost every situation, so you don?t need much DM ruling anymore.

Then the "Cold War" begun. Combos and more combos developed by power players started to be countered by new official rulings and more combos were created in response, to the point I do not recognize the arquetypes anymore. No one play a fighter for example, becuse it?s considered by the "experienced players" as a week class. On the other side every character i have sem on the gaming tables was developing "some levels as a fighter" becuse of the short terms benefits of a fighter on levels 1-4.

In short: the game became a mathematicaly well balanced unrecognizable mess.

I don?t know much abou the 4e yet, but my expectations are very low.

So all things considered I believe it will be good for HARP and RM.

[jasonbrisbane]

HI,

Anyone notice how all the "Down with 4.0" threads have disappeared from the WotC boards?

Not ONE single doomsayer thread! I was going to post but they left one single "puppies=DnD" thread up with a reference to it going down. Thats it!.

How many playtesters and WotC staff had to post on the boards under different names to boost the DnD 4.0 is good thing?

The books were too many. People wanted to play characters from all sorts of books with all sorts of combo's and a DM's life was simply too hard to suit the different players, let alone run a story in.

But in order to make money form the Wizards machine they MUST produce MORE books, more often, with "extra added Bonus Value Content" otherwise they will go out of business.

I expect that a few people will keep DnD 3.5 but I know all of my DnD friends wont. They will sell all of their 50 or so books (that each person has) and get 4.0 in a heartbeat.

But how will they get access to the increased content during games with what is still fairly slow internet connections in Australia? Cant see it happening successfully.....

I think this will be great for Harp and RM. People will buy a good game system that doesnt have 4000  possible character combinations but still allows you to have a damn good time roleplaying. If they have to learn a new system anyway then why not try HARP?

[Zhaleskra]

The books were too many. People wanted to play characters from all sorts of books with all sorts of combo's and a DM's life was simply too hard to suit the different players, let alone run a story in.

S.O.S.: S.ame O.ld S...., this is hardly a new habit nor is it particular to D&D. Players with too much disposable income always try to get their GM's to use things he has no interest in.

[Dr_Sage]

The books were too many. People wanted to play characters from all sorts of books with all sorts of combo's and a DM's life was simply too hard to suit the different players, let alone run a story in.

S.O.S.: S.ame O.ld S.hit, this is hardly a new habit nor is it particular to D&D. Players with too much disposable income always try to get their GM's to use things he has no interest in.

Heheheh

My old DnD DM was the other way around. He was the rich one, and the only one that actualy had 50+ books in his bedroom.

The effect was curious: he used to "make us" play the various characters he had seem on some obscure product. Usually the games didn?t lasted long for that reason.

[Zhaleskra]

My old DnD DM was the other way around. He was the rich one, and the only one that actualy had 50+ books in his bedroom.

The effect was curious: he used to "make us" play the various characters he had seem on some obscure product. Usually the games didn?t lasted long for that reason.

I'm guilty of the "I have this, try this" syndrome too. Anything that sounded cool went in without a thought toward balance or other ways of it fitting in.

[mocking bird]

I think this will be great for Harp and RM. People will buy a good game system that doesnt have 4000  possible character combinations but still allows you to have a damn good time roleplaying. If they have to learn a new system anyway then why not try HARP?

I think this is just the opposite of d20.  You can tell a person waht class he is and you can then guess one or two different class combos to get there.  In other words there are only a few high level presteige classes and characters not high enough level to get there.  TTRPS meets computer RPG with its fixed skill/class tree.  It only gives you the illusion of multiple class options.

You need a third option - no effect at all.  I don't see why someone not picking up 4.0 due to the principle of the thing or money or time reasons would pick up HARP or any other system instead.  You don't have to look much beyond the RM2 vs. RMSS debates, let alone the AD&D players still out there, to see other examples of this.

[Dr_Sage]

Ops!

Good news / bad news scenario.

Good news: finally someone is developing a very nice virtual RPG table. WotC has merit indeed. 

Bad News: Going to be pay per use. 

[Zhaleskra]

I think this is just the opposite of d20.  You can tell a person waht class he is and you can then guess one or two different class combos to get there.  In other words there are only a few high level presteige classes and characters not high enough level to get there.  TTRPS meets computer RPG with its fixed skill/class tree.  It only gives you the illusion of multiple class options.

You need a third option - no effect at all.  I don't see why someone not picking up 4.0 due to the principle of the thing or money or time reasons would pick up HARP or any other system instead.  You don't have to look much beyond the RM2 vs. RMSS debates, let alone the AD&D players still out there, to see other examples of this.

In my case it's a matter of simplifying my RPG collection and tastes. Using every type of die except the d30 just because you could was fine when I was younger, and now I'm looking for my games to be more logical mathematically (and I'm not even a mathmatian). There is not much likelihood of me running "straight" D&D, and the double- and triple-counting of the same thing is what made me decided D&D3.X would be the last edition(s) I use.

Ops!

Good news / bad news scenario.

Good news: finally someone is developing a very nice virtual RPG table. WotC has merit indeed. 

Bad News: Going to be pay per use. 

There are other virtual tabletops out there that I'd like to try, and the only reason I can't is that neither of my computers have all of the system requirements.

[Alwyn]

I have posted numerous times on how I feel about D&D.  I think that this 4.0 thing will drive some people to seek out new games, i.e. HARP, RM and such.  Which could be a good thing for the ICE brand.    Some will probably stay loyal with their beloved D&D.   

I think D&D just got out of hand with all the supplements and prestige classes all over the place.  It was just too much.

I bought the new Star Wars Saga edition, which was supposed to be a test version of what D&D 4.0 might look like combat-wise.  I was not impressed.     It appears to me that WotC is heading more towards a miniatures game rather that a role playing one.

[Dr_Sage]

I bought the new Star Wars Saga edition, which was supposed to be a test version of what D&D 4.0 might look like combat-wise. 

I have heard that one too. In fact its the second time they use Star Wars as a test bed for combat rules.

Right now I have some serious issues with DnD 3.5 that allow me to play bot forbid me to be a DnD DM. SOme friends of mine are discussing the DnD 4th edition and they are optimistic. We shall see... I prefer to be open minded.

There are other virtual tabletops out there that I'd like to try, and the only reason I can't is that neither of my computers have all of the system requirements.

Really? Can you point me some directions? The only one I have tested is OpenRPG, but is was kinda bugged badly. Check this, we must admit it is impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m20AJvdzAdo

(word to the Moderators: I am NOT advertising DnD stuff here, but seemed appropriate to show people what I am talking about. Pls feel free to delete the link if you feel its notappropriate).