Topic: Do you make Full Parry characters attack?

[shnar]

I know the rules say that even if you're full-parrying, you still do a +0OB Attack, but I don't think I've ever enforced this rule. I was wondering what others do in this situation. Do you do the attack, or just move on to the next round?

-shnar

[Defendi]

I do.

[bottg]

Of course.  Just because they are parrying does't mean they cant fumble

On the other hand, i have know characters hit the enemy with a +0 attack (i always saw it as the enemy leaving themselves wide open due to the parry)

[Defendi]

Or tripping and falling on the enemy sword.

[yammahoper]

Yes, we roll the +0 OB attack.  Which is typically, "oh...44.  Nevermind." and move on.

lynn

[Cory Magel]

Hmmm. The players in our circle want to make the attack because they know they could go open ended and get a good hit out of sheer dumb luck. So, the question has never really come up... but I suspect we'd have everyone make the attack if it did.

[Marc R]

Even in situations where you absolutely do not want to hurt the attacker, you should still make the roll. . .

Like a Mentalist has taken over your brother's mind, and he attacks you with a sword, you declare full DB parry while the priest tries to dispel the control, since you don't want to hurt your brother, but you're still waving 3' of sharp steel around, and there's always a chance that you might accidentally kill your bro. . . .the roll made in a "full DB" situation is the pure dumb luck aspect.

Even if your character is just parrying, there's still always a chance of someone getting hurt in the process. . . plus, there's always that chance of a fumble.

[shnar]

The question tends to arise in the games that the player wants to "dodge", i.e. not attack at all and effectively move out of the way. In fact, some players have asked for a bonus if they do a 100% parry and don't attack.

I suppose I could understand an accidental hit with a sword, but if you look at it in the context of Martial Arts, if you are just blocking, then I'm not sure how you would translate that into an attack. It's hard to justify an accidental breaking of a leg if you're just blocking...

-shnar

[Marc R]

I typed up a long reply, then remembered this video.

Fighter with back to camera "Full OB!"

Fighter facing camera "Full DB!"

The results speak for themseleves:

http://www.afn.org/~afn46118/pics/kickboxing%20leg%20break.mpeg


As for the issue of full out dodging, it was added to RMC AL as a maneuver option.

[shnar]

I've seen a similar video, but that to me isn't a +0 OB attack, I would consider that a fumble, but that's just me.

As for the issue of full out dodging, it was added to RMC AL as a maneuver option.

Really? Now that's an interesting idea, and effectively answers the question of how to do a no-attack-full-parry.

-shnar

[Balhirath]

I dont use the +0OB attack.. Partly because we didn't use it when I learned the system, but also because I fell that people who are fully on the defensive, shouldn't be allowed to make an attack. (And thus count on luck to overcome an enemy)

I have always regarded the 'Parry' as a combination of an actual parry and dodging.. which explains why even lowlevel Martial Artists can parry a weapon without taking damage.
It also explains how creatures can 'Parry', since they simply elect to transfer some of their OB to DB to avoid an attack.

[Marc R]

There are disadvantages to parrying weapons unarmed. . . .if you don't have an object like bracers or a kata weapon handy you get OB:DB at 2:1, since all "parry" consists of dodging and moving the weapon away, since you cannot really block, or "parry" a weapon with your body.

Parry, with a decent OB, is more effective in generating DB than Dodge, but Dodge works in situations where parry might not be a good idea, or even possible. (Like vs an immolated opponant, or vs missile weapons or spells.)

[Balhirath]

There are disadvantages to parrying weapons unarmed. . . .if you don't have an object like bracers or a kata weapon handy you get OB:DB at 2:1, since all "parry" consists of dodging and moving the weapon away, since you cannot really block, or "parry" a weapon with your body.

Hmm Is that rule in the books? Coz if so I must have missed it every single time I read them.. which would not be the first time *grin*

[Marc R]

No books handy, but it's in there with the weapon types in "Offensive Bonus". . .same section that goes into the limits on Pole Arm parry and 2HD weapon parry. . .It's in the same sub section that talks about parrying with "Terrain Features"

Animals/creatures/monsters also get that weak 1/2 parry bonus unless they have something to parry with or hide behind, like a Turtle's shell, or a weapon, or something similar.

[Grafton]

Agree with Balhirath. Don't use the +0 attack for the same reasons. Full parry is just that - total defense, no offense.

[Balhirath]

No books handy, but it's in there with the weapon types in "Offensive Bonus". . .same section that goes into the limits on Pole Arm parry and 2HD weapon parry. . .It's in the same sub section that talks about parrying with "Terrain Features"

Animals/creatures/monsters also get that weak 1/2 parry bonus unless they have something to parry with or hide behind, like a Turtle's shell, or a weapon, or something similar.

Hmm I read the section in Arms Law again last night.. and I still couldn't find it *smile*
It makes sense and I will most likely use it, but it would be nice to have it on print.

[PiXeL01]

I can remember at some point the defender was asked whether or not he felt like rolling the attack. I think it  came down to 50 50 to be honest. Now I think we dont really bother. On a side note, we dont use the rules about shield being used to parry Arrows ...

[Marc R]

My RM2 books are hardcopy and at home, but I could swear it's in there somewhere.

Checking the RMC PDFs it's RMC AL pg 19-20.

I've rarely seen a 0 OB attack do much, but fumbles on full parry can drasticly affect the fight.

OTOH, I don't allow things like weapon bonus OB to be used for parry, OR spells that give an OB/DB bonus like some on paladin's "Arms Way" I don't allow conversion of that OB to DB either. Another Paladin list "Inspirations" gives a bonus to a "Die Roll" which is also OB, can't be DB. . .

So Hypothetically, you could have a row of imperial elite riot supression troops armed with +10 quarterstaves backed up by a high level Paladin facing off with a horde of rioting citizens. . . .The cits charge, the paladin casts Inspirations X. . . . .

The Imperials use their 100 OB of skill for "Full parry". . . .So +100 DB. . .but still have +10 weapons and a +50 "To their die rolls" spell effect on them. . .or +60 OB . . .which against a mob would likely be enough to break the crowd's heads. . .

Now, that's a bit of a rarified example, but I can think of plenty of situations where "Full Parry" ended up leaving a decent amount of "Forced OB" behind.

I wonder, is that a house rule? Could you add the +10 Magic Weapon bonus of the staves to Parry? (The "Inspirations" would seem to have to be OB, since it affects die rolls.)

[shnar]

I've *never* played that way nor even considered doing so, so my guess is it's a house rule. We feel any +OB weapon/spell adds to your ability to fight. If you're using your ability to fight to protect yourself (i.e. parry), then you can use that OB for your parry. I don't recall anything in the rules that says +OB weapons/spells cannot be used for parry.

And as for the sometimes fumble rule, I think that's why my players ask to not attack with a full OB parry...

-shnar

[Balhirath]

Hmm I think that it's a houserule.
Magical +xx on OB is about how easy the weapon is to handle on a whole as well as an extra bit of energy (the way I see it the magic makes the weapon better at transforming potential energy into kinetic energy and vise versa) when it hits. It kinda have to be that way, since all weapons can be made magical. (if it was about sharpness, what about Maces ect.)
Both the ease of handling the weapon and the extra energy do add to Parries... especially when trying to parry a two handed sword with a scimitar