Topic: New Names for Monk and Warrior Monk

[zorfwaddle]

My reason for making it so difficult to attain higher MA ranks is this:  Higher ranks of a MA are obviously considered to be the most dangerous techniques of the particular art, perhaps requiring years of mastery in order to become effective.  Currently, in order to learn these higher "mysteries," George the WM needs only 10 skill ranks in order to learn the most dangerous techniques (4 rank 1, 3 rank 2, 2 rank 3 and 1 rank 4).  This could be achieved by level 2 (1st level: 2 skill levels in rank 1, 1 level in rank 2 (total of 5 DP); 2nd level: 2 levels in rank 1, 2 levels in rank 2, 2 levels in rank 3, 1 level rank 1 (13 DP).  To me, this is way too quick.  In my "option," you would have to be level 15 in order to learn the most hidden techniques.  Really, a couple of really good attacks in MA Rank 1 would disable most lower level enemies.

On the other hand, perhaps some martial arts are easier to learn than others, and my option would only apply to the most difficult arts.  The more difficult the MA, the better the critical, the higher the damage, etc.  Simpler MA would cost lest but do less damage.

Heh heh, I guess thats why the system is sometimes called "Rulemaster"! :-)

George

[Balhirath]

I see the logic in what you are saying, but on the other hand nobody think twice about a first level char giving max damage with a sword (if roling open ended) and I know that the use of a sword takes a lot of skill.
Ask anyone that have studied fencing or Kendo.

[zorfwaddle]

Heh heh, yeah, no kidding!  But thats what I like about Rolemaster; that level one warrior has a (remote) chance of taking out the dragon :-).

George

[Balhirath]

Agreed

However it seems like this does not apply as soon as the warrior in question use Martial Arts. 

It might not be realistic, but then again most of us are playing in fantasy worlds, where Magic do exist and so do Orcs, Trolls and many other creatures, so why the sudden need of realism?

I think that if you apply realism for Martial arts you have to apply it for many other fighting skills like weapon skills.
Some people would say that you can always be lucky when wielding 2-3 feet of sharp metal. True.. so use four-tier skill rank development for swords, but allow openended rolls to ignore the max damage to simulate the possibility of luck.

[yammahoper]

Balhirath, I think you are under-estimating the effectiveness of A-C crits on the MA crit tables.  High rolls will take out a foe, just like high A-C crits on slash, puncture and crush.

There is no reason a martial art strike should be as effective as a sword blow.  A few broken bones versus a severed limb is no contest.  Sword wins.  Weapons SHOULD be more effective that MA.

lynn

[smug]

Like Yamma, I also think that Martial Arts are way overpowered.

Mind you, I also don't let my characters be wandering around town in plate mail without consequences.

[Balhirath]

Balhirath, I think you are under-estimating the effectiveness of A-C crits on the MA crit tables.  High rolls will take out a foe, just like high A-C crits on slash, puncture and crush.

There is no reason a martial art strike should be as effective as a sword blow.  A few broken bones versus a severed limb is no contest.  Sword wins.  Weapons SHOULD be more effective that MA.

lynn

Hmmm I have looked through the critical tables now and yes they are quite like weapon critials. That does not bother me all that much, but I can see that it might be a problem for some.

The obvious thing to do is to just say that armor protects very well against bare handed attacks deduct 5 from criticals if the opponent is wearing leather plate, 10 if the oponent is wearing chain and 15 if the opponent is wearing metal plate.
The alternate thing is to change the attack tables for Martial Arts and that might take some work

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

If you do that, then you should do the reverse for MA Sweeps, which are more about unbalancing a foe than hurting him directly.

[Marc R]

Short of a push, which is more like sweeps and throws. . . most martial arts attacks on rigid leather or plate should cause damage to the attacker. . . And an old adage I recall "Never hit someone with your fist if you have anything harder and less breakable around to hit them with instead."

Technically, according to the rules, the GM can enforce a Break Factor check whenever they want to. . . .

Now, it might tone down the high endedness of Martial Arts if the GM were to turn around and rigidly enforce the BF rules on monks.

"Ohh, looks like you missed by 10, so you hit his shield, roll break factor for your hand/foot/elbow/knee."

if I recall, the rules on BF are not to friendly to non magical weapons built out of bone. (A -20 material if I recall off the top of my head.)

So, Mike Tyson and Bruce Lee can bash heads in with their hands and feet, right up to the point where they miss an attack by the margin of shield/armor/parry and are forced to check BF. . .Which would make using M-A against armored opponants a desperation move at best except as ambush attacks, or when you've got a +200 OB.

[smug]

If Mike Tyson hits someone without gloves and wriststrapping, he's very liable to damage his hands or wrists (if I recall, he has in fact done that at least once) just hitting unarmoured foes.

Of course, he could probably kill the average person with a big punch that hit right (at least, in his prime he might).

[zorfwaddle]

Yeah, it might be a little unfair to martial artists when it they are stacked up against oponents that develop weapon skills in the normal fashion.  I may have to run a few tests.  5th level monster vs 5th level WM/"Adept"/Martial Artist vs 5th level fighter or something like that.

Really, when it comes to weapon techniques vs the difficulty it takes to kill with your hands/feet, I think it is much easier to imagine the ease with which someone can slash with a sword or bash with a war hammer.

George

[Marc R]

If I recall, he hit Mitch Green (Another boxer) in a bar dispute, broke two knuckles and sprained his wrist. . .knocking out a few teeth, broken jaw, broken cheekbone for mr green. . .so yeah, that kind of thing.

Or the video above. . .attack, missed by margin of parry, BF roll failed horribly.