Author Topic: NPC attack clarification  (Read 1307 times)

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Offline Samzagas

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NPC attack clarification
« on: September 21, 2020, 01:52:07 AM »
Sorry if this question has already been asked before, but I'm copying some animals and monsters form the "Creatures and Monsters" book that I have to Fantasy Grounds and I found an issue at the beginning.
It is about weapon codes. I understand that natural weapons are composed of two parts, a "size" indicator and a "weapon" indicator, so a "STs" is a Small Trample/Stomp and a "LCl" is a Large Claw/Talon; but in the very first table of chapter 3, I find some weapon codes that use a non-existing size indicator, for example a "TBi" or a "TGr". I'm guessing that they can be read as Tiny Bite and Tiny Grapple, but that doesn't really makes any sense, does anyone knows what is that supposed to mean?
On another note, how do you guys manage swarms of small creatures? I want to use some in my game and it sure sounds like a chore to roll for each tiny spider bothering the characters.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2020, 07:27:02 AM »
In RM2, it was Tiny Bite and Tiny Grapple.  You are correct there, but you state that it doesn't make sense.  What is the creature producing those crits?

For swarms of small insects like bees or spiders, I let the players roll the attack, subtract the DB, then look at the resulting damage.  If the result is something like 14 points damage and each creature has 2-3 HP, then they killed 5-7 creatures.  I just spread the damage out over the bodies, killing off as many as needed to equal the points of damage delivered.  Other times, if the attack results in a hit with damage, I roll D-10 so see how many creatures have died.

There is usually more info in the creature description describing how to resolve the creature/swarm attack.  Sometimes there is a different bonus if say 10 or more rats attack as a pack, rather than resolving 10 individual attacks which can take a long long time.
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Offline Samzagas

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2020, 11:37:29 AM »
Sorry for the confusion, I'm talking about the "Creatures and Monsters" from RMFRP, not the "Creatures and Treasures" from RM2. In this edition the weapon sizes listed are Small(S), Medium(M), Large(L) and Huge(H), not Tiny.

Offline jdale

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 12:07:38 PM »
It's probably an error, but given the creatures that have those attacks listed, you should make the attacks on the Tiny attack table. Since there's only one Tiny table, you can ignore whether the attack is listed as a tiny bite or tiny grapple etc.

If you look at the attack for small rodents, it's 20TBi100/20SBi(6). That means if one small rodent attacks, it's a +20 Tiny (bite), but if 6 small rodents attack, resolve it as a single +20 Small Bite ("20SBi(6)"). If a creature doesn't have something like that listed, you might apply something similar anyway just to speed things up.
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Offline Samzagas

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2020, 12:25:48 PM »
I guess it makes sense that way.

Offline markc

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2020, 12:41:23 PM »
Can you provide the edition of the book? (Country, Edition, printing month, etc)


In the past there have been different entries/data in the same book in different printings/editions/Countries/etc.


There is a chance it is an error that got carried over from RM2 to RMSS and it did not get changed.


There used to be a document that talked about misprinting's and errors in RM2 and other RM books, it should be called RM Rulings and it a bit dated at 14 years old (from a report of another poster) but it might have the info you need to help.


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Offline markc

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2020, 12:50:13 PM »
I just checked my Arms Law (RMSS) and the Tiny attack table is on page 89.
The creature stat chart is on page 14 of my RMSS Creatures and Monsters.
I do not have the RMFRP version in hard/soft cover and do not think I have e-copies but those if I do they are on a HD I cannot access at the moment.


I can get you the editions if that helps.


MDC



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Offline Samzagas

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 12:53:23 PM »
It's an old book I got on a garage sale, it says "Second U.S. Edition, First Printing 1999" so that 14 years old errata might be useful to me.

Offline Samzagas

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2020, 01:00:03 PM »
I just checked my Arms Law (RMSS) and the Tiny attack table is on page 89.
The creature stat chart is on page 14 of my RMSS Creatures and Monsters.
I do not have the RMFRP version in hard/soft cover and do not think I have e-copies but those if I do they are on a HD I cannot access at the moment.


I can get you the editions if that helps.


MDC

Thanks but there's no need, I'll just follow the RMFPR tables and replace any errors I see, plus I have the RMFRP Arms Law too so I can use it's Tiny critical table.

Offline markc

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 09:07:03 PM »
Finding RPG books at a good price and you have the $ is always a great time.


I hope the tiny table is in RMFRP AL if it is not then ask a moderator if they could send it to you or post it in the ICE Vault.


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Offline PiXeL01

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 01:20:47 AM »
There’s a Tiny Attack table is both of the FRP versions of Arms Law.
P. 89 in the 1999 version and p. 61 in the 2003 version.
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Online rdanhenry

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 09:06:44 AM »
The reason it specifies the attack type ("TBi" v. "TGr") even though it doesn't matter with a tiny attack, is in case you want to make a giant version of the creature. Also, just descriptive aid.
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Offline markc

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 09:07:52 AM »
Good deal.


I was thinking that there was an attack table that was dropped from SS to FRP and some creature stats had not been changed.
But it looks like I was misremembering.   ;D


MDC
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Offline PiXeL01

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 12:34:23 AM »
When I was researching the arms law I noticed one of the books had changed the headers within the table itself. Originally a Tiny attack’s potential would become greater and greater if the creature scored a critical in consecutive attacks. One of the FRP ALs has changed that to the standard small/medium/large/huge headers.
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Offline jdale

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2020, 11:16:34 AM »
I have "Third U.S. edition, 1994. The reformatted 1999 printing." It has the progressive criticals.

It wouldn't make much sense to have standard sizes on the Tiny table, since a creature will never be Medium, Large, or Huge making Tiny attacks.
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Offline markc

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Re: NPC attack clarification
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 03:17:41 PM »
Side note:
I would change the Size method on combat chart if used a lot in your game.
A) If you look at the way Arms Law weapon charts work, at 150 you get the max (or maybe in ultra rare case a UM100), but with sized based attacks you often need a vastly small total OB value to get your max damage result.
B) In my game most of my combat was Humanoid v Humanoid or large sized creatures so it was not an issue but if I was going to be using a lot of smaller attack types I would have created my own charts for the attacks (prop just S and Med and left the others)
C) The one PC attack chart that I was thinking of reworking for PC's was the Martial Arts table(s) that used this same type of style limiting attack damage by thresholds (I-IV).
Note: the book 10MWTD also uses this combined attack tables for all weapons and while I have the book (for completeness and a bit of ICE support) I myself do not use it, except in dire circumstances.


Sorry for the thread change of direction.


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Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.