Author Topic: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline Ylissa

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Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« on: March 10, 2020, 12:18:06 PM »
In preparation to finally run a HARP game, I have reread the (2017) HARP Fantasy rulebook and have come up with some questions that I would to get some feedback on prior to starting the game.

Apologies if these have already been asked, but I had some issue using the forum search function (due to timeouts).

Q1 p15 - mention is made of the 'Extended Arcana Talent', could someone please tell me where I could find this talent?

Q2 p24/25 - Dwarves and Gryx both have the 'Dense Musculature' ability; do they also receive the same -25 to swimming that the 'Dense Musculature' talent imposes?

Q3 p27 - 'Players may then use their DPs to purchase one Greater or two Lesser Blood Talents' - is it possible to purchase just one Lesser Blood Talent?

Q4 p30 - under the 'Pace/Time Increment' table, what are the Time Increment values for a character with a +0 (or worse) Con bonus?

Q5 p39 - what is the attack size and critical table to use when using Brawling to deliver unarmed attacks (such as punches and kicks)? As an additional question, if the answer is that unarmed Brawling attacks are limited to Tiny attacks, is there any benefit to learning this skill instead of Martial Arts Strikes (which do a Small attack on the Martial Arts Strikes Attack Chart) other than for flavour?

Q6 p41 - 'Two Weapon Combo' - is there a limit on the size of the off-hand weapon, or can any weapon that can be used in 1 hand be used; so for example TWC could be used with Broadsword (main hand) and Mace (off hand)?

Q7 p48 - under 'Spell Casting' - universal spells are listed as Re/SD; is this irrespective of Profession? So, for example, a Harper, Ranger or Cleric will likely have a lower stat bonus to cast Universal spells than their own Professional spells?

Q8 p51 - 'Some smaller Pole Arms (all listed below) may be used equally well either one-handed or two-handed.' The use of 'Some' is confusing me; does this mean that all the list entries (Pole Arms, Spear, Javelin, Pilum, Harpoon, Lance, Trident) can be used in both 1 and 2 hands?

Q9 p58 - Daily Item I - are there any guidelines to what the maximum PP cost the spell should have (for example, a spell up to 5 PP cost)?

Q10 p59 - 'Focus Item' is listed under 'Special Starting Items' as a 5DP cost which gives a +5 bonus.  On p116 it seems that the choice to use or not use a focus item is made at character creation (and no mention is made of a cost).
Are these 2 the same thing - or is the p116 choice a choice that is made at character generation (granting a +5 bonus with no DP cost), with the charcater is then able to take the 'Special Starting Items' option at a cost of 5DP for a further +5 bonus (so +10 in all - half from the option to use a focus item and half from the 5DP Special Starting Items choice)?
Is there any complexity when using these options with the 'Spell Focus Styles' in CoM - or are the decision to use a focus/special starting item separate from the Spell Focus Style the character uses?

Q11 p60 - under 'Training Package Cost' - once the cost of the TP is calculated, if it is not an integer do you round the TP cost up, down or off?

Q12 p83 - under 'Falling Damage' - 'Characters with Acrobatics/Tumbling... adding the result to their Defensive Bonus against the fall.' If the Acrobatics/Tumbling roll results in a negative Bonus, is it ignored - or is it applied, possibly negating (or exceeding) the characters Agility/magic bonuses?

Q13 p92 - under 'OB Modifier' - when someone is attacked from the rear, is the bonus +20 or (+20 plus +15 flank) +35? My old Rolemaster experience may be misleading me here!

Q14 p94 - when refitting armor, does the 10% cost of the armor include any superior material multiplier (if the armor is made of superior material)?

Q15 p98 - 'Disengage from Melee' - if a combatant chooses not to use this action (and instead simply moves away from their opponent), is there any penalty? Does the opponent get some form of, lets say, opportunity attack?

Q16 p102 - how do you handle multiple stuns: do they run concurrently, do they stack (increasing the duration and the RR required to overcome), or are they treated sequentially (so the first stunning effect must finish before the next one is applied)?

Sorry about the wall of text!

Offline Radimon

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 04:49:37 PM »
I apologize for the wall of text, and for the fact that I'm not giving an official response, just my personal understanding of things.

1) Extended Arcana has not been released yet, as far as I know.

2) The dwarf and gryx traits don't specifically mention it, so by RAW, no. However, you're the GM of your game. Whether you feel it's appropriate to make those races sink like a stone due to their increased density (because: SCIENCE!), or let them ignore it (because: FANTASY!) it's your call.

3) Yes, it is possible to buy just one lesser blood talent. In fact, I highly recommend humans trade up from skill specialization to something worth 20 or more points (personal favorites include "Nightvision," and "Hardiness" or "Amphibious Action" from Folklore). Given  that these sorts of traits might remain for generations after first introduced to a family, and might go dormant for generations thereafter before popping back up again, it's even possible your character might not know why he/she has this trait, simply assuming he/she is good at what they do, or perhaps even blessed by whatever gods they worship.

4) I agree the whole issue of fatigue is poorly done in this game, but I think the basic assumption is that you treat your CON bonus as a minimum of +1 for that table.

5) Unarmed Strikes are Small-sized attacks, by default. The monk's level 1 bonus improves this to Medium, as does the "Martial Arts Training" Talent (10 DP, you can find it in HARP Sci-Fi, if you have access to that).

6) RAW, any two weapons can be used, so long as each weapon can be used with one hand. That said, Martial Law clarifies this slightly, explaining that the style in the core book is intended for use with two different *types* of weapons, not merely two *different* weapons. To support this spurious ruling, ICE then added another combat style called *paired weapons* that has completely different effects. That said, I personally don't see any valid rationale for saying you couldn't specify two of the same type of weapons, aside from their "Oops, we goofed! Hey! Let us distract you from our mistake with this shiny, new, underpowered option over this direction!" move.

7) Correct. Regardless of what your profession is, Universal Spells key off of Re/SD.

8) All of the polearms are listed below, but you're right in that the ones which can be used with 1 or 2 hands is not specified. To be honest, I would say to simply use your better judgement. Spear-and-shield styles have existed in the real world for thousands of years (watch 300 for a good example). That said, I would not even attempt using a halberd (an axehead strapped on the end of a long spear) with just one hand.

Incidentally, the javelin is a Medium weapon, regardless of whether you use it with 1 hand or 2.

9) Whatever you, as the GM, feel is appropriate. If you want, this could be some sacred relic that casts a healing spell once a day when needed to save your life (Major Healing is a good choice, or perhaps Lifekeeping). I personally like the idea that this comes in the form of a "Get out of Hell, free" card from a Monopoly game, personally signed on the back by the god of death.

10) You can use a focus or not, that's your option (this gets fleshed out in College of Magic). Ultimately, it's your choice whether your mage waves around a wand or wiggles his/her fingers. The special starting focus item is a particularly well-made one, thereby granting a bonus to casting your spells. Think of it like a bonus item, where the bonus added is to your spells, not swinging a sword or picking locks or whatever.

11) The cost of training packages gets rounded up.

12) As I've said before, if you're the GM, it's your game and you can rule however you fell is fair. Speaking from personal experience though, trying to move acrobatically to land in a better position after a fall CAN put you in a worse position than if you had simply fallen normally.

13) Getting attacked from the flank is +15, but can apply parry modifiers. Getting attacked from behind is +20 (5 more than getting flanked), but also parrying is not an option without special abilities or circumstances. It's that "and you can't parry" thing that really makes getting stabbed in the back so dangerous.

14) Yes, plus the cost of hiring a more skilled armorer, if necessary.

15) Yes, it means the enemy can attack you. If you don't disengage, the enemy can simply follow you and strike again immediately (check the "move & attack" and "press & melee" options for examples).

16) Never had this come up in-game, so I'm not sure. My guess is you have multiple stun effects running separately, each on its own timer, and you suffer the effects of being stunned until you shake them all off. In short, I believe its a binary state: yes or no, although there can be more than one reason for "yes" to apply (a spell and a blow to the head, for example).
Murphy's Law says 'Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.'

I think Murphy was an incurable optimist.

Offline Ylissa

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2020, 11:34:02 AM »
Just like to say thanks for taking the time to reply to this; unofficial or not, it has made me feel more confident ahead of starting my campaign!  :)

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2020, 05:52:21 PM »
Re: #3 I have to disagree with Radimon on this one. This is written in what is in grammar, logic, and programming what is called an "exclusive or" or XOR. You MUST purchase two Lesser Blood talents. If you want to only switch one talent, use Genetic Adaptation from HARP SF.
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Offline Radimon

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2020, 12:46:34 AM »
Zhal, with all due respect, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The logic you're presenting can be taken to ridiculously excessive lengths. In fact, if you follow your own assertion to its logical conclusion, traits from genetic hybridization would never fade with successive generations, unless three-way hybridization occurs (half-race plus something else). A half-elf and a human would always produce a half-elf, as would a half-elf and an elf. You could even have someone forced to pay 10 DP because somewhere in the distant evolutionary past, a homo neanderthalensis and the first homo sapiens sapiens had a kid together.

Just so I'm clear on your logic, Zhal: if a half-elf/half-human and a half-amarvish/half-hehn had a kid together, what would YOU say is the result?

What would you do for a human/human hybrid? According to the ultimate extension of your logic, humans who have Skill Flexibility are different from those who have Professional Adaptability. Would you force a human to pay 10 points, just because their parents have different optional talents? What about if their parents apply their Skill Specialization to different skills?  Or a different mix of bonus skill ranks? What about Skill Flexibility (Appraisal: Weapons and Armor), and Skill Flexibility (Appraisal: Art)? Where, exactly, do YOU drawn the line on edge cases?

NOTE: Personally, I would absolutely pay 10 points to take Skill Flexibility or Professional Adaptability, plus 3 bonus stat modifier points, instead of Skill Specialization and the bonus skill ranks. Seriously. I absolutely would. Not a moment's hesitation.
Murphy's Law says 'Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.'

I think Murphy was an incurable optimist.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2020, 07:56:42 AM »
Just my 2 cents on this one, for #3 the player can take one greater or two lesser, meaning the player has to take Lesser Blood Talents, not one.  Otherwise it should have been written "One Greater or up to two Lesser Blood Talents."  If this is not true, there should be an errata correction printed somewhere stating a player may take only one Lesser talent.

It's similar in RM2 background options: A player may raise one stat by 2 points, or three stats by one.  Three stats get raised or one stat gets raised.  It does not read "up to three stats get raised by one."

Ultimately it's your game and your GM's decision.  He can always house rule the point.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2020, 09:10:13 AM »
My interpretation is that by the time that there is so little influence of one race left that only one thing is left from the ancestors it's no longer a blood talent and is now a genetic adaptation. I have argued before that to help ease this confusion ICE should have included "exactly" in the wording, because as we can see, differences in local grammar use and personal reading comprehension can lead to different results.

I'm just putting forward what I feel is both Rules as Intended and Rules as Written.
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Offline Radimon

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2020, 08:03:10 PM »
I  went back and looked for an errata file, and could only find one from waaaay back in 2004, which subsequently sent me to a friend's house to consult a copy of the rulebook from back then to check it against. The wording back in the original edition contained an extra couple of sentences on the first paragraph, specifically mentioning 1/4 races and delineating the ability to buy one OR two lesser blood talents.

At this point, I'm not sure if this removal is an oversight, or an intentional change to the rules to remove the option to only buy a single lesser blood talent.
Murphy's Law says 'Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.'

I think Murphy was an incurable optimist.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2020, 09:25:48 PM »
I  went back and looked for an errata file, and could only find one from waaaay back in 2004, which subsequently sent me to a friend's house to consult a copy of the rulebook from back then to check it against. The wording back in the original edition contained an extra couple of sentences on the first paragraph, specifically mentioning 1/4 races and delineating the ability to buy one OR two lesser blood talents.

At this point, I'm not sure if this removal is an oversight, or an intentional change to the rules to remove the option to only buy a single lesser blood talent.

Wow.  Great research!  If the omission was intentional, then it's clear that you player buys two lesser blood talents now where previously it was one or two. 
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: Some Questions After Reading The HARP Rulebook
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2020, 09:52:46 PM »
Odd, the 2004 PDF doesn't seem to have that wording. I'm not at all surprised at PDFs and physical books being different. For one d20 System "skin", the options for one class's abilities are only in the PDF though they are mentioned in the physical book, whereas with HARP SF there are a lot of tables that are included in the physical book that are not in the PDF.
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