Topic: TRYING TO FIND THE PERFECT ROLEMASTER 2/CLASSIC CHARACTER GENERATOR

[C.Tozer]

Hi all

I think I am really wishing for the unobtainable here but here goes …. I have been trying for a long time to locate the perfect RM2/Classic electronic character sheet/character generator.
I think ultimately I will need to create my own though I thought it may be worthwhile asking in case I have missed an existing one.
What I am after is:
-   a downloadable (ie not hosted) solution
-   a chargen that lists all of the RM2 professions (approx. 150 including all of the 7 Companions, Rapiers Point, Oriental Companion, Combat Companion, Arms Companion, Combat Companion, Alchemy Companion, Elemental Companion, etc, etc)
-   a chargen that lists all of the spell lists from all of the additional companions mentioned above
-   a chargen that allows you to print out a well-designed character sheet (for example like Rolemaster Office (but RM Office uses the RMSS rules …. Damn it!)
-   a chargen that allows you to customise/add things into it such as new races, professions etc etc

There are a whole bunch out there I know (for example all of those listed on the ICE Forums site (I have checked out all of the ones at http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=cat50) and I am of course aware of ERA, which looks good but doesn’t have the depth (number of professions/spell lists or is able to customised enough for my preference). Also I find the character print out not that great in terms of design or aesthetics.

I have scoured the internet, often finding what looked to be useful stuff but more than 10 years out of date/unsupported.
The best I have come across is RMC_CHARGEN (a great piece of work) which does allow you to customise/add to it but I do find it rather clunky and also that it created in Open Office – see http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=2777.0 
I would prefer to have RMC_CHARGEN in Excel if possible but I haven’t been able to covert the .ods files to Excel successfully.

I suspect that I am simply being too fussy/picky (as I guess all GMs want to have their sheet looking “just so” for their games) and my comments regarding others work is not at all meant to be derogatory – many, many gamers have spent a lot of time designing Chargen’s and have been generous to share them with the community.

As I said I guess I am hunting for a needle in a haystack/or for a unicorn that simply doesn’t exist but I thought I would at least ask if perhaps someone reading this may know of a Chargen that I haven’t come across.

Please see the attached image in terms of the kind of .pdf character sheet I’d like be able to produce.

I’d be hugely appreciative if you know of something and could point me in the right direction before I start “reinventing the wheel” and designing my own on.

Many thanks

Chris

[Peter R]

To all intents and purposes RM2 is unsupported and more than 10 years old. The current ICE created RMC to be able to support the RM2 community but also to be free of the intellectual property restrictions that went along with the old version of the game. Or that is my understanding.

The result is that anything that supports all the RM2 companions will be over 10 years old and pretty much unsupported.

[Hurin]

It is a shame, because Tozer's wish list is very much like my own: a comprehensive downloadable chargen that is not web-based and has a nice printable Character sheet/summary.

At least I think we will get this for RMU.

[Peter R]

The electronic products like ERA seem to be on a much faster production cycle than the print products. I would buy a RMU char gen product.

[Hurin]

I'm currently working with Shorn's for RMU, which I think maybe might be the basis for an official one down the road? Not sure about that. I've also taken JessicaEwers builder for a ride as well. Both are good.

[Nightblade42]

Once, long ago, I too departed upon the quest for the CharGen that fit all of my needs & wants.  Like the search for many treasures, the exact thing I was looking for could not be found.  I have since then created my own sheets in various programs over the years (most recently using NBOS's free Character Designer/Viewer software).  But out of all the sheets I've used over the years, the one that fit my needs closest was the one I created in Quatro Pro (sorry, I'm a Word Perfect Office junkie - Microsoft Office & Open Office drive me nuts: why do those two programs find the hardest way to do things that are one click simple in Word Perfect Office?).  It is by far the best sheet & it does have a lot of the things that C.Tozer is looking for (tho, not the Spell Lists, I will admit).

So I guess what I am saying, to quote an old proverb of sorts: "If you want something done right, do it yourself."  So if you want a CharGen that works for you, you gotta build it yourself.  Everyone has different needs & wants, so the likelyhood of finding a CharGen that matches all of your criteria is slim - but that is not to say those CharGens are bad.  On the contrary - they work quite well for those authors that created them & for those people who choose to use them.  But if you can live without some of those wants, then you might be able to find something that will meet your needs.

Best of luck!

Nightblade ->--

[Voriig Kye]

Hi C.Tozer. Welcome to the band of those who want to create the perfect chargen for their group. ERA started just like that for me.

If you are willing to give ERA a try, I will point out the following:

• It has support for RMC, which is the closest to RM2 you can find in a supported product
• It has some house rule options to allow for some RM2 features from the companions
• It has an open XML format for the customization of your own spells, professions, races, and even skill set
• I am in the middle of redesigning the printable character sheet, to make it a practical and beautiful summary of a character

If you start with ERA RMC and add the Spell Law and Companion I packages, you will have a lot of the races, professions and spells from RM2. From then on you would need to manually add the spells and professions missing. I know it is a lot, but you shouldn't need to build the chargen from scratch.

Also, if there is any ruling from RM2 that you need, let me know and we can see if there is any workaround in the current version, or an easy way to add it in the future.

Due to copyright reasons, I can't offer any of the RM2 book contents, I have tried to add little by little all the material that allows for the most people to make the most of the application.

Finally, let me repeat that I am currently redesigning the printable character sheet.
The image you attached might not be approved for a while yet, so feel free to PM me with any samples you might want me to consider in the design.
Thanks!

[arakish]

It is a shame, because Tozer's wish list is very much like my own: a comprehensive downloadable chargen that is not web-based and has a nice printable Character sheet/summary.

At least I think we will get this for RMU.

And it would need to be modifiable in EVERY aspect.  Not all GMs use RM, even the RMU, in RAW form.  I have always drastically reworked the magic system.  I also tend to create my own species which can drastically diverge from the standard RM fare of species.  In my current campaign world for example, the only species that also exists in the RMU is humans.  And they are still slightly different than the standard.

This is why I wish I was better at designing and writing spreadsheet code.  I love all the spreadsheets I have downloaded, but none, except one, are modifiable.  And the one that was modifiable, was not modifiable enough.

And, YES!  It MUST be able to run independently, regardless of OS, and definitely NOT web-based.  One thing I truly despise about many programs is that you MUST have a live internet connection to use it.  Don't get me wrong, I love web-based programs because you can access and use them wherever you have reliable Wi-Fi or cell phone service.  However, some like me may live and work in "dead" zones.  I have internet at home, but not at work (at least not for private access).

rmfr

[C.Tozer]

Thanks Nightblade and yep I think you are right that ""If you want something done right, do it yourself."  So if you want a CharGen that works for you, you gotta build it yourself."

That said if I can build on the work that others have kindly started (thanks for the kind offer Voriig Kye) even better

Cheers

Chris

Once, long ago, I too departed upon the quest for the CharGen that fit all of my needs & wants.  Like the search for many treasures, the exact thing I was looking for could not be found.  I have since then created my own sheets in various programs over the years (most recently using NBOS's free Character Designer/Viewer software).  But out of all the sheets I've used over the years, the one that fit my needs closest was the one I created in Quatro Pro (sorry, I'm a Word Perfect Office junkie - Microsoft Office & Open Office drive me nuts: why do those two programs find the hardest way to do things that are one click simple in Word Perfect Office?).  It is by far the best sheet & it does have a lot of the things that C.Tozer is looking for (tho, not the Spell Lists, I will admit).

So I guess what I am saying, to quote an old proverb of sorts: "If you want something done right, do it yourself."  So if you want a CharGen that works for you, you gotta build it yourself.  Everyone has different needs & wants, so the likelyhood of finding a CharGen that matches all of your criteria is slim - but that is not to say those CharGens are bad.  On the contrary - they work quite well for those authors that created them & for those people who choose to use them.  But if you can live without some of those wants, then you might be able to find something that will meet your needs.

Best of luck!

Nightblade ->--

[C.Tozer]

Thanks for the tip - I will check them out.

I'm currently working with Shorn's for RMU, which I think maybe might be the basis for an official one down the road? Not sure about that. I've also taken JessicaEwers builder for a ride as well. Both are good.

[C.Tozer]

Hi Voriig

Thanks for the kind offer and congrats on developing a really good piece of software. I like the idea of adding in the existing packages and then manually popping in the other stuff I want.

I will send you though a pm of my suggested 4 page printable character to provide you with some ideas as you are redeveloping your printable sheet.

Thanks again

Chris

Hi C.Tozer. Welcome to the band of those who want to create the perfect chargen for their group. ERA started just like that for me.

If you are willing to give ERA a try, I will point out the following:

• It has support for RMC, which is the closest to RM2 you can find in a supported product
• It has some house rule options to allow for some RM2 features from the companions
• It has an open XML format for the customization of your own spells, professions, races, and even skill set
• I am in the middle of redesigning the printable character sheet, to make it a practical and beautiful summary of a character

If you start with ERA RMC and add the Spell Law and Companion I packages, you will have a lot of the races, professions and spells from RM2. From then on you would need to manually add the spells and professions missing. I know it is a lot, but you shouldn't need to build the chargen from scratch.

Also, if there is any ruling from RM2 that you need, let me know and we can see if there is any workaround in the current version, or an easy way to add it in the future.

Due to copyright reasons, I can't offer any of the RM2 book contents, I have tried to add little by little all the material that allows for the most people to make the most of the application.

Finally, let me repeat that I am currently redesigning the printable character sheet.
The image you attached might not be approved for a while yet, so feel free to PM me with any samples you might want me to consider in the design.
Thanks!

[Nightblade42]

Thanks Nightblade and yep I think you are right that ""If you want something done right, do it yourself."  So if you want a CharGen that works for you, you gotta build it yourself."

That said if I can build on the work that others have kindly started (thanks for the kind offer Voriig Kye) even better

Cheers

Chris

Once, long ago, I too departed upon the quest for the CharGen that fit all of my needs & wants.  Like the search for many treasures, the exact thing I was looking for could not be found.  I have since then created my own sheets in various programs over the years (most recently using NBOS's free Character Designer/Viewer software).  But out of all the sheets I've used over the years, the one that fit my needs closest was the one I created in Quatro Pro (sorry, I'm a Word Perfect Office junkie - Microsoft Office & Open Office drive me nuts: why do those two programs find the hardest way to do things that are one click simple in Word Perfect Office?).  It is by far the best sheet & it does have a lot of the things that C.Tozer is looking for (tho, not the Spell Lists, I will admit).

So I guess what I am saying, to quote an old proverb of sorts: "If you want something done right, do it yourself."  So if you want a CharGen that works for you, you gotta build it yourself.  Everyone has different needs & wants, so the likelyhood of finding a CharGen that matches all of your criteria is slim - but that is not to say those CharGens are bad.  On the contrary - they work quite well for those authors that created them & for those people who choose to use them.  But if you can live without some of those wants, then you might be able to find something that will meet your needs.

Best of luck!

Nightblade ->--

Yes, a template to start from is much better then starting from scratch.  Best of luck in your search!

Nightblade ->--

[Voriig Kye]

To avoid derailing this thread, let me just point out that I've shared some examples of the character sheet for ERA in the next version. You can see the post here:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=18557.0

[munchy]

I remember a really good one from the old days, that allowed you to pick whether a certain companion should be used of not and you even choose certain rules to apply or not apply, if I remember correctly. It even had the Oriental Companion and the lot included. It needed several 3,5" (floppy) disks if I am not mistaken. Don't have that anymore but in my memory it was near to perfect.

[Neee-Wom]

There was a generator done by a French guy called Eric Lestrade, the name of the package was CPR and the last versión I got was the 0.93. It worked really well, but I do not think it will work on 64 bits OS without emulation.

Today for my games we have a spreadsheet in LibreOffice that fits quite well our game.

[Hurin]

The more I work with Shorn's sheet, the more I like it. It may seem a bit overwhelming at first, but you get the hang of it pretty quick, and it does a ton of work for you. It really is great.

I also like Voriig's stripped down ERA sheet as well for a more minimalist approach. I imagine his version would be especially good for mobile devices.