Topic: Adittional strike + adrenal speed

[Finwe]

Hello.
I have the following question. A player uses combat style with additional strike + adrenal speed, thus achieving 4 strikes in a single round. this used for several rounds, can unbalance the game. What is your opinion? Thank you.

[yammahoper]

I have no problem with it. If cinematic rules are used that would be 12 attacks. Also no problem.

Finwe's OB was over 500. From your nickname I would have guessed a power game 

[HawksNut]

I would allow your example too. If the game becomes unbalance then a strategic encounter with a Major Spectre or a Greater Wraith can return balance to the game.

[gog]

the use of exhaustion points as a control mechanism. Yes you can do it but not for that long...

[Voriig Kye]

I don't know where we found this rule, but in my group Adrenal Skills are limited by the number of ranks.
If you have N ranks of Adrenal Speed, you can only spend N consecutive rounds using the skill.

Remember that to have Additional Attacks, the player is spending extra DP's every level, and also takes a penalty to all attacks when using the option.

Finally, as has been said many times in this forum, anything the players can do, the enemies can do as well. That alone will always keep your game balanced.

[Cory Magel]

It's possible to make too many attacks at once in RMU imo and I think that's likely to become a balance issue in some games.  The seeming dismantling of the martial arts theme to the point that they seemed like an afterthought (although that has been partially rectified), movement skills providing DB, certain combat skills being too clumped together, and certain skills being moved to talents is seem like weird choices.  There are too many things that seem to be driven by limited points of view and don't take into account the broader preferences of various gaming styles.

I know some believe that by providing players more freedom of access to more abilities creates more unique PC's, but in my experience it does the opposite even more often.  Players take what they would have anyhow, but now have the ability to pick up skills that other professions traditionally had better access to.

[jdale]

Additional strike is from RMSS's Martial Arts Companion, not RMU, and RMU reduces the benefit of adrenal speed, so on this topic at least, RMU is less permissive of multiple attacks than RMSS.

[Cory Magel]

Oops, I was mixing replies and ended up not really making a point. lol

RMSS has some potential built in limiters, the first being three phases (so you can't take more than three actions) and the second being a melee attack must be 60%.  Then there are the skills that allow an additional attack like Two Weapon Combo and Additional Strike.  So wouldn't the best you can do with 200% activity be three attacks, we'll say 80% (and -40), 60% (at -40), 60% (at -30) potentially making two attacks each phase for a total of six attacks?

[Arioch]

To be able to do that he must have poured quite a lot of DPs in his combat skills: I say he earned his 4 attacks.
Plus, it doesn't really seems unbalanced to me. Compared to what a spell user could do by spending the same amount of DPs in spells, 4 attacks for a few rounds are nothing.

[tbigness]

No, 4 attacks in a round are deadly as that could end up being a deadly attacker roll per roll. This tips the balancing point quit a bit. Melee attacks should never be compared to spell attacks in power anyway as magic is highly restricted so the power is deadly on it's own. They are also restricted by PP cost and like missile ammunition can run out. The melee option does not run out and can be just as deadly especially to low armored and low DB creatures.

[Arioch]

Almost everything is deadly to low armored, low DB creatures 

Just joking, of course, but IMHO "balanced" doesn't mean that everyone should always have the same chances in everything at any moment.

Could such a character kill 4 ligthly armored foes in a single round?
Obviously yes, but again I see no problems with that. Dealing with similar foes is that character's specialization. It's what he spent half (or more) his DPs for. It's his moment to shine!

Put him against 4 heavy armored, parrying opponents, and his chances drop drastically.
Against 4 archers at range his 4 melee attacks/rounds will be useless (and yes, ammunitions run out, but a skilled archer need a single arrow to score an E crit).
Calming is a 2nd level spell, Sleep is 1st level. Even 1st level characters can safely cast them without having to worry about using up all their PPs and aren't restricted in any manner (unless, say, you ban or restrict magic in your campaign, but that's another matter).

What I mean is: yes, that character is going to be very effective at killing certain enemies. No, that's not unbalanced, because it's a very situational set of skills, that's not going to work everytime, is not going to solve all the problems the character will encounter and requires a lot of effort and DPs expense.

[tbigness]

I would have to have restrictions on it as a Style that he has to use to qualify for such an attack, being that it is declared and then the positives and negatives apply based on the Style like in the Martial Arts Companion. Then I don't have an issue to much.

[Ecthelion]

In our group we are all more power-gamers than the story-teller type of players, but nevertheless we seldom have used such styles allowing 4 or more attacks per round (even without cinematic rules 9 attacks per round would be possible using the rules in MAC). It simply costs tons of DPs to develop such styles in a way that their OB is not significantly lower than the OB without the style - which would mean that you would only use it against very weak opponents -, plus you usually have no shield or a magic shield at best, which in comparison to a full shield with some bonus offers less protection. And often the secondary or tertiary attacks included in such styles are weaker than the primary attack, because they suffer from the off-hand penalty or they are martial arts attacks with a low MA rank, limiting the maximum result.

All in all such styles offering multiple attacks are IMHO not unbalancing.