Topic: DP not enough?

[arakish]

Is there anyone else here who thinks like my wife and I?

There is not enough DP to actually make a char?

Shouldn't the DP = (all Temp Stat scores, summed) ? 10?

I mean come on...

We are dealing with 100+ skills where the average before slash cost for any profession is 3+.

anyone, please.

mfr

[PiXeL01]

I guess that depends on the view of the game. Do you want characters limited to what thet can do and through this be somewhat specialized or do you want everyone to have a shot at being true jacks of all trades?

If you use all the secondary skills in the Character Law it is highly recommended that you increase the amount of DP by 25% I think it is. THere is no limit to how much you can increase the DP in your campaign through this option. If you use RC2 it is probably adviced to increase it futher.

For the record have I never played in a campaign where the DPs was increase, so no I dont really feel there are too few DPs. I always in a way wished for more, but then it would have had no end if I got them. DPs are like Gold pieces and PP, you can never get enough

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

For the record --

RM2/C has 28 core skills, period.

RM2/C (core book) gives approximately 40 additional, optional secondary skills that can be added (for a total count of about 60)

IIRC, RMC suggests giving an additional 25% of DPs for use in purchasing these optional secondary skills.

My personal viewpoint is that you should give +1 DP for every 2 skills added beyond the core 28 skills, but this bonus DP should not exceed a total of +20 DPs.

But, if you have more  than 100 skills, that means you have added quite a bit more. You should either revisit them to see if some of them are really needed, OR add in a few more DPs.  The choice is yours.

[thrud]

I feel the Core DP's +25% works ok in RMC when the Optional secondary skills are used.
My followup question is of course:
Does ICE intend to increase the number of available skills?
If so someone should figure out a good sysem for adding DP's at the same time that you increase the number of skills.

I remember the skill bloat in IIRC, suddenly the +25% were no where near enough but ICE never published any suggestions on how to handle the ever increasing number of skills. Please do not repeat this...

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Heh... the book I am working on writing actually tries to reduce the number of skills (i.e. changing Maneuver in Armor to a single skill, and reducing the weapon skills somewhat, if I get it working the way I want).

But not to worry, I seriously doubt that RMC will ever see the sort of skill bloat that RM2 saw...

[PiXeL01]

I was wondering if there was an article or guideline somewhere which describes who to use the skills we already have for situations we before have skills for.

Here I am talking about diplomacy, bribery and duping, which if I recall correctly arent in the RMC? There could be alot of other exsamples to this

[Tarek]

In most situations I would normally use:
diplomacy = public speaking or an appropriate General Lore (Cultural Lore, Administration, etc)
bribery = seduction
duping = acting

However, the exact situation may mean that other social skills could be used depending on what the exact situation is. For example an emotional appeal to a public servant could use seduction instead of public speaking.

Normally my players are more than happy to suggest skills for a situation. My problem is often working out what skills not to allow to be used, rather than what skills are allowed.

[Balhirath]

I use 50% more DP, due to the fact that I use a LOT of skills. Most skills in RM Comp 2 AND some from comp 4, Arms Companion, Oriental Companion and Alchemy Companion.

[shnar]

After the massive number of skills introduced in RMC2, it was clear that normal DPs wasn't enough. There was an option in one of the later companions (can't remember which one) that I personally loved and used. Allow DPs for ALL stats, but you can only spend DPs from the stat on skills that use that stat. For example, you couldn't use DPs earned from IN on a Broadsword skill, you can only use DPs from ST or AG.

This made the most sense to us (those who learned better from their smarts had more smarts skills, those who were more athletic had more physical skills) and it added a lot more variety to the skills used in a game, which of course the GM started making sure there were situations to use these new skills.

-shnar

[thrud]

Shnar> To much of a hassle

[arakish]

I can see a lot of points made.  Thanks.

Weapon skills could be categorized with 4, I think.  Although wielding a mace can be different than a sword, there actually isn't enough difference to warrant separate categories.  Here is my offering: 1 handed, 2 handed, missile, thrown.

For other skills, the "skill bloat" is warranted.  Being diplomatic and being influential are two different abilities (skills: Diplomacy, Duping).

Another: First Aid, Second Aid, Surgery are drastically different.  First Aid more or less allows you bandage wounds.  Second Aid actually allows one to perform minor surgeries to stabalize a patient until they can get to a hospital (i.e. - tracheotomy, extraction of a foreign object, crude sewing of an artery, etc.).  Surgery, however, requires a extremely stable environment and delicate skill.

Yet another example: Crafts.  There are so many crafts that are so drastically different, they require separate skills.  In real life, I actually carve wood to make enruned staffs and rods.  I also sculpt copper to create miniature trees.  This is a problem I have even with the new RMFRP/SS.  They categorize Sculpting as one skill.  However, I beg to differ even on this.  Sculpting stone, wood, or metal are three different skills.  Although they still require the same stats (Ag, SD, In, Re), they are still three different skills.

Now here is another point.  Staying good at a skill requires practicing it.  If you don't, you lose that skill.  For example.  I used to be an excellent electric guitar player.  However, since I haven't touched one in almost 20 years, I probably wouldn't know what to do with one if it were handed to me.  Since I never practiced that skill, I lost it.  Thus, I suggest, if you don't use a skill, you could begin to lose ranks in that skill.  Perhaps this should be done as another thread?

rmfr

P.S. - Thanks for the help y'all

[pastaav]

Another: First Aid, Second Aid, Surgery are drastically different.  First Aid more or less allows you bandage wounds.  Second Aid actually allows one to perform minor surgeries to stabalize a patient until they can get to a hospital (i.e. - tracheotomy, extraction of a foreign object, crude sewing of an artery, etc.).  Surgery, however, requires a extremely stable environment and delicate skill.

I am very sceptic about these super versions of ordinary skills. In real life the would be doctor learn first aid and then moves to more advanced stuff.

Surgery is advanced, but a more sensible way to handle that is to say that this means there is difficulty penalty with doing surgery and not make it into a seperate skill that cost lots to buy.

Call the skill Medical Treatment and make Second Aid into a -30 penalty and Surgery into a -70 penalty and you both reduce skill bloat and make the game much more realistic.

[lev_lafayette]

I am very sceptic about these super versions of ordinary skills. In real life the would be doctor learn first aid and then moves to more advanced stuff.

Surgery is advanced, but a more sensible way to handle that is to say that this means there is difficulty penalty with doing surgery and not make it into a seperate skill that cost lots to buy.

Call the skill Medical Treatment and make Second Aid into a -30 penalty and Surgery into a -70 penalty and you both reduce skill bloat and make the game much more realistic.

In a word, "yes". For a few years now I've been trying to push the various games I run into this sort of direction.

However, I think separate skills still have their place, because in the real world (whether by choice or circumstance) people do learn advanced specialisations quite independent of the more basic and general skills. So I suppose the answer is something like FUDGE, which has a sliding scale of specialisation and skill acquisition.

[Pit Ote]

Hi,
I think that it's not a DP question. 1000+ skills don't imply that a character must know all of them, not even all skills must be used in an adventure.
The character's skills determine his behaviour, for instance, in an adventure the characters have to persuade to a guard to go into a 'building' (castle, prison, tower,..... typical situation  ). The beauty will use seduction, the ugly will use intimidation, or bribery, blackmail, duping, disguise,... and maybe the rich use no skills, only much money, but all characters don't need all the skills.
I agree that some advanced skills (ex. surgery) needs basic skills before, I think here in the forums there was a thread that proposes several ways to do it.
Also, a character with 150-200 DPs can develop 50 weapons and no additional skills.

[Balhirath]

Also, a character with 150-200 DPs can develop 50 weapons and no additional skills.

That is why I require GM approval before chars learn new skills

[Green Manalishi]

What I am doing now (RM2) is allowing additional DPs based on Me and Re, and those DPs must be used on secondary skills only. I am using most of the skills in RM2, but also using similar skills.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I agree, but had compensated by starting characters off at a slightly higher level in RM2, so the effect was considerably lessened.

Also I prefer using RMSS, which due to the effect of Categories and larger Profession bonuses at 1st Level tends to allow for a reasonable spread of competent skill bonuses anyway....

[arakish]

Been long time since I actually read this thread.

... or do you want everyone to have a shot at being true jacks of all trades?  ....

YES!!

Is this not what we all kind of become as we age in life?

How many times have you heard,

"Honey <or other petname>, can you do this?  Or, That?  Or, Thisthat?  Or, Thatthis?  ...  "

And, then there are the others...

rmfr

[RickInVA]

Back in the day we gave the normal DP for Primary Skills, and an additional 50% of your normal DP specifically to be used on Secondary Skills.  We felt this allowed characters to gain those Secondary Skills that were more like hobbies and pass-times without compromising their Primary Skills.

[Peter R]

I have always looked at it as the starting character may not know a great range of skills but they acquire more as their story unfolds.