Topic: What are stats, and why do we need them?

[Marc R]

I generally assume weapons to be chosen to fit the person. . .so the halfling and the half ogre go shopping, and buy very different short swords. . .reflected in the difference in their stat bonuses, and it's impact on OB. . .though, it comes up to matter in actual play about as often as "does the chain mail fit me?" does.

[David Johansen]

I generally equate weapon SIZE with the table.  For instance a dagger is a tiny weapon and a short sword is a small weapon.  I then equate character size to weapon size so a dagger is a halfing short sword but an ogre or troll can use a great sword as a broadsword.  Of course that means there's no table for a giant sword but I equate x2 damage multipliers with Large and x 3 with huge.

[markc]

I generally assume weapons to be chosen to fit the person. . .so the halfling and the half ogre go shopping, and buy very different short swords. . .reflected in the difference in their stat bonuses, and it's impact on OB. . .though, it comes up to matter in actual play about as often as "does the chain mail fit me?" does.

 I guess every game is different as it comes up in my game quite a bit. But then also the size of armor comes up a lot also.  It is also why I created a re-size enchantment for armor so it can change its size somewhat. Not from 3' tall to 8' tall but more like + or - 6". But I guess higher level enchantments could change it to any size.
MDC

[Moriarty]

I suspect that there are, at root, three reasons for stats.

First, they offer a baseline mechanism for certain things not covered by skills. . .unless you really want to go all out with skills like:

Encumbrance
Initiative
DB

And more in that vein.

Second, there are races, which gain a lot of their variation in stats.

Third, it's the primary layer of skill/task similarity. . .guns are like acrobatics are like bows are like dancing is like fencing is like the hurdles is like juggling. . .all reflected in agility.

I think this is a fine analysis of what skills are, and why we need them.

How much in your opinion should the stat layer contribute to weapon skill total for a level 20 world class fighter, say 5% or 25% or 40% of skill total?
The other contributions might be from skill rank bonus, similarity/category bonus, professional/level bonus, special ability bonus.

I noticed that in RMX the maximum stat is 90 when creating characters, making the maximum stat bonus for most characters around 15, which radically limits the contribution that stats could possibly make to skills, and I wonder if that was intentional or not.

[Marc R]

Some people, no matter how hard they train or try, can't be major league baseball players.

It's arguable if that's due to 50% variations in human ability, or that the competition is so fierce that less than 1% variation is enough to fail the cut.

But picking up varied weights has a lot more to do with stat than skill .  ..strength is the most obviously trainable stat of course, but some people put on muscle and keep it a lot better than others.

Some people are measurably smarter than others. . .with some exceptions, smarter people tend to excel at learned tasks over less smart people with the same amount of training and experience.

RMC wise, a Halfling could be pulling a -20 ST, +25 Co and +25 AG, which is a decently large modification of result.

[Moriarty]

And that same hafling with a bow would have a stat bonus to skill of Ag/Ag/St or....10? I know this was just an example, but that's one of my concerns with multiple stats, everyone is just so average, after all the averaging is done.

[Marc R]

Climbing, Directed Spells, Stalking, Swimming at +25,  Body Development at +25.

Pure ST maneuvers to pick things up at -20, encumbrance at -20.

Some skills are strongly stat tied  (X/X) or (X/X/X) while some are weaker (X/X/Y) (X/Y) or (X/Y/Y).

I suspect the reason for the mixing of stats was an anti powergaming measure to nerf MinMax builds. . .A bricky fighter needs ST and AG for weapons, Co and SD for Hits. A swashbuckling rogue needs ST and AG for Weapons, Qu for dodging. . .making it hard to max one stat vs all others and get a powegamed build out of it. . .if you push to extreme, you either need to really nerf the other 6-7 stats to max 3-4, or moderate your build.

One of the complaints sometimes made about pure casters is the fact that they are the one profession type most suited to going for broke and a max 100-101 realm stat, then to crom with the rest. (Especially Channelers, with an In being handy in play for perception tasks, and few directed spells needing Ag.)

[yammahoper]

And that same hafling with a bow would have a stat bonus to skill of Ag/Ag/St or....10? I know this was just an example, but that's one of my concerns with multiple stats, everyone is just so average, after all the averaging is done.

Invent a halfling bow that is Ag/Ag/Ag, 1/2 hits, 10' point blank (+15), 11-50 medium (+0), 51-120 long (-20), 121-180 Extreme(-30).  I mean, if we accept the absurdity of multiple races as standard fantasy fare, can't they at least be smart?  Why would a weak race not invent weapons suited to them instead of relying on human weapons that are over sized for them?

This is by no means a put down to anyone here, just more of my diatribe against silly races in rpgs.

[rdanhenry]

Any self bow is going to be somewhat strength-based. Also, point-blank should be a penalty with self bow, rather than a bonus (an arrow leaves the bow flexing and until it straightens out, will not hit for proper penetration). Better make that a halfling crossbow.

[yammahoper]

Any self bow is going to be somewhat strength-based. Also, point-blank should be a penalty with self bow, rather than a bonus (an arrow leaves the bow flexing and until it straightens out, will not hit for proper penetration). Better make that a halfling crossbow.

True on the arrow flight.  I forgot that.

The point is it can still be a bow, with a few simple pullys attached like a modern compound bow.  Crosbows work too.  Maybe the ever inventful Gnomes and Halflings have a strong bond in the world. 

Ok, the gnome/hobbit relationship comment was unecessary venom.  My apologies for forcing anyone to imagine it.