Topic: Comment on "Cutting the Revision Knot"

[David Johansen]

IMHO I think it would be more fair to compare RMSS sales vs RMC sales.

MDC

From what points in history.  There was a time when the hobby was in a huge growth phase and there was no RMSS.  There was a time when RMSS was essentially abandonware and RMC was getting all the support.  I guess you could compare the sales for RMSS when it first came out against the sales for RMC when it first came out.  But even then I think the circumstances don't really allow for a fair comparison.

Beside, RMSS is a dead game.  Has been for years, a revision that retains some features as options is really the only road forward.  Among other things, I doubt that the various authors and artists can easily be found and brought on board for a cleaned up edition.  SPAM is a different matter as Robert's still hanging around here.

[smug]

IMHO I think it would be more fair to compare RMSS sales vs RMC sales.


MDC

Yeah, that was my thought, too (although I assume RM2 sales were also in decline before RMSS was produced, there's a lot of water under the bridge since then), although we'd have to compare later-period RMFRP sales with the RMC sales (given that the market had changed again, since RMSS came out).

RMC, I guess, was somewhat cheaper to produce, at least.

[yammahoper]

RMSS is dead, no doubt.  And with the cutting of the so called revision knot, sp is RM2, RMC, RMX.

Success demands they die while the company gets 100% behind the new product and pushes it.  There is no room for division of focus or even labor in such a small company. 

[smug]

RMSS is dead, no doubt.  And with the cutting of the so called revision knot, sp is RM2, RMC, RMX.

Success demands they die while the company gets 100% behind the new product and pushes it.  There is no room for division of focus or even labor in such a small company.

They'll keep selling the pdfs and we'll still be able to get hard copy via PoD, though, so it's not "dead" like it used to mean (such as when RM2 was discontinued). It just means no more development by ICE*, if that's the route they go, although I wonder if Shadow World, etc, will continue to have RM2/C stats from Terry and RMSS/FRP and new edition stats from other fans.

*Although the line between official and fan development is sort of blurred, given that Guild Companion -- an open submissions institution, originally and still -- is now in charge of Rolemaster. If something is made for RMSS/FRP or RM2/C and submitted, I guess that GC might sell it on the OBS sites if they think that the editing and layout effort was worth it.

[Marc R]

When you hear me, Nicholas, or Thom say so, then it's perhaps more than rampant speculation in the absence of actual hard information.

You two are both fairly close to me in generally cynical outlook, and us cynics generally assume the worst case scenario, then we're happily surprised if we get good news. . .but when you get more than one of us in a conversation like this it turns into a Wake. . .Since joining this forum, I've attended multiple funerals for RM2, RMSS, SM2, SM:P. . .all of them it turned out at the time, premature.

So perhaps it might be worth amending that you think so. . .but you don't know so. . .and you've both declared one of the two princes dead before, and the other one the new king. . .and turned out to be premature each time. . .

so when some new person to this forum reads this thread they can say "Oh, it's just two cynical old dudes speculating on he future. . .again." rather than giving them a panic attack.

[smug]

I should have been clearer that what I meant to say was that in the worst case, taking Yamma's position as correct for the sake of argument, they'd only be 'dead' in terms of new product. That's light years ahead of what it used to mean (such as at the time RM2 was canned). I guess one could say it's dead in distribution, but that needn't be a permanent condition even if it's an important one for some people.

Seems to me that no solid decisions are yet made -- GC have hardly had long to make them, after all -- and that things could easily change. I guess that RMSS/FRP folks might be gloomier because they've had longer to wait -- although as I used to argue before RMC was known about, it's not the same thing as having no legal searchable, etc, .pdfs, even -- but surely it's also a pretty complete game (and more complete if the MAC issue ever gets sorted)? RMC feels pretty complete, even though there was much more RM2 than there is RMC.

I'd still love to see more RMC, to be clear. New Companions, mass-combat, etc, etc. I wants it.

[Langthorne]

I like the idea of similar skills too...just not the way they were done in RM2 or via the categories system in RMSS.

I guess it is OK if I just find negatives in both systems, so long as I'm even handed?