Topic: Various Bonuses, only OB, only DB, Both?

[Marc R]

OK, you declare an OB/DB split, out of your skill.

Various spells, magic weapons all grant bonuses. . .

But almost all are bonuses applied to just OB of attacker, or just DB of the defender, after the split is declared.

This came to mind based on the discussion here:

http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=10519.0

That (using RMC bonuses, but the logic applies with RMSS also):

Broadsword +10 OB (Enchanted with Weapon II)

is a different magic item than

Broadsword +10 Skill (Enchanted with General II)

In that if Gronk, with a +50 Bonus in Broadsword skill is using one or the other, with the +10 OB weapon he could at most extreme declare an OB/DB split of 0/50, then it's 10/50 with the Weapon II bonus.

But using the 2nd sword of +10 skill, he has 60 points of skill to split, so could go 0/60 with all the bonus to DB.

Or would you allow magic bonus or quality bonus to a weapon to be used on the DB side?

[markc]

 In the past this was discussed and it was reasoned that the Material OB bonus also made the weapon some how easier to wield.
 IMHO in terms of simplicity most people just add the Material bonus right into the skill and it should be allowed to be used as the same as a skill bonus of the same amount.


MDC

[Marc R]

I recall those conversations, but it always seemed a bit sketchy to me logic wise.

I guess, in the end, it's an expediency thing, in that it would be annoying to track yet another variant bonus set up.

On the same logic, would a shield +10 made with "Armor II" be usable for +10 DB per normal or +10 OB if you punched someone with it?

[markc]

 IMHO that is a tricky one and for shields, gauntlets, boots etc that can be used in both a DB fashion and an OB fashion I would apply it to both.
MDC

[Marc R]

It starts to make "Weapon II" and "Armor II" seem like the same spell results, effectively giving you effects similar to the "General II" higher level spell.

Although, admittedly, the "Armor II" spell gives you DB from any number of attacks under just about any circumstances, rather than a bonus to parry a seen attack on a declared foe. . .and General can be applied to just about anything. . .

[markc]

 Yes IMHO it is one of the cases that back then it just made sense, armor = armor spell but now a-days we know that things can be used in multiple ways. So it you had to use different spells to provide different capabilities then a shield could be +10 OB/+25 DB +15 DB spell=+40DB total.


MDC

[rdanhenry]

In that if Gronk, with a +50 Bonus in Broadsword skill is using one or the other, with the +10 OB weapon he could at most extreme declare an OB/DB split of 0/50, then it's 10/50 with the Weapon II bonus.

But using the 2nd sword of +10 skill, he has 60 points of skill to split, so could go 0/60 with all the bonus to DB.

Or would you allow magic bonus or quality bonus to a weapon to be used on the DB side?

Well, since he's doing a full parry, he gets the shield bonus for his weapon (+5), so it is 0/55 with an unenchanted broadsword. A material bonus makes the weapon a better shield, so I'd certainly allow that to be DB if it was a full parry with a Steel (+10) sword for 0/65. I rather hate to make things complicated and make magic inferior by not allowing it with a magic bonus. OTOH, I think you should only get weapon bonuses to your DB if you go full parry. No 5/55 split. Which is so unlikely to be a desired split that the exception should never come up, so rule simplicity is virtually saved.

[Old Man]

I'd allow it for both for simplicity as well. One could argue that it makes the parry more effective in the same way as an attack is (the weapon is stronger, can't be batted away, etc.). These days I am all for reducing the number of variations on the way the mechanics are applied in Rolemaster. (Hence my various Qs on OB or DB stacking etc.)

Regards,
Old Man

[Marc R]

agreed, though it might be interesting  to have that variation, the hassle of tracking another number doesn't seem worth it for the benefit.