Topic: Extending "Self" to "Touch" or more

[Marc R]

With all the spells that affect self. . .many use the wording "caster" in the spell description, while spells with a range that can effect others often say "target".

Often this has to do with control, like "Caster can now. . ."

If you use a ranging ability/spell to make a "self" range spell touch or more, and put it on someone else, should "caster" be read as "Target"?

[Kristen Mork]

Yes.

[yammahoper]

Yes.

What he said.

[rdanhenry]

However, the leap from "self" to "touch" is arguably more than simply a change in range because of this, since the nature of the target changes from "self" to "anyone". I would think that at the least this would be substantially more difficult/expensive than extensions of range for spells that are already ranged.

[Marc R]

True, the move from 0 to 1 is infinitely large compared to the move from 1 to 2.

[Skaran]

We require 4 ranks in spell mastery to change a spell from self to touch requiring a spell mastery roll prior to the spell casting or if the spell mastery ranks are permanently 'expended' on the range alteration then the spells base parameter is changed from self to touch.

The only exception we had was the Channeling Healers base lists where all self spells were changed to touch and the Transference Ways stuff dropped (we didn't like the type of healer this produced and no one would play one.)

[yammahoper]

While caster changes to target, or self to target, the spell type does not change.

[markc]

 I have changed how I use SM so now it is only specific spells that are allowed to change self to touch.


MDC

[Old Man]

We require 4 ranks in spell mastery to change a spell from self to touch requiring a spell mastery roll prior to the spell casting or if the spell mastery ranks are permanently 'expended' on the range alteration then the spells base parameter is changed from self to touch.

Skaran, do you expend the ranks per single spell, related group of spells or spell list?

[markc]

Old Man;
 I am going to guess that Skaran may say you have to have 4 ranks above the spell rank to change the spell from self to touch, And then those 4 ranks are subtracted from you ability to do anything else with the spell.
 But that is a guess on my part.
MDC

[Skaran]

Generally with 'expended' spell mastery we go with groups of spells, for example 'Word of Power' in the Essence realm would be a group regardless of which lists they were actually on (of course you need to know the spell!) since in this case all involve uttering a word. The net effect is that you end up with both the base spell and an altered version. The extra cost of the spell mastery ranks expended being the cost of this altered spell.

One thing where I do not allow spell mastery alterations is to alter a spell to match an exisiting one. For example increasing the range of a base shock bolt from 100' to 300' for example since such a spell already exists.

[markc]

Skaran,
 Can you give an example of your system? IE spelled out with all of the numbers, made up numbers are OK.
Thanks
MDC

[Marc R]

The OP was getting into a more specific aspect of this.

Like if you have a transport spell that is self, and extend it to touch, when you touch the person, they can now transport themselves, rather than the caster being able to transport them.

So making a healing self spell touch would not heal the target, it would grant the target the ability to heal themselves. . .with healing, that's mostly semantics, unless the target doesn't want to be healed, but with a "Mind's Door" Leaving I or "Movement" Fly I it's the difference between moving someone (potentially into danger) or granting them the ability to move themselves.

[yammahoper]

Plus, if a very nasty GM, this wonderful transfered ability does not transfer the mages skill at spell casting, of which our silly PC has none except a very low Em mod and fumble results go WAY up the chart if against a foe in metal armor.

[Marc R]

I think the SM just pushes the effect off, not the SCSM/Casting roll.

[yammahoper]

I think the SM just pushes the effect off, not the SCSM/Casting roll.

I agree on the SCSM.  The caster already did all that work.

[yammahoper]

I agree on the SCSM.  The caster already did all that work.

Besides, 80lbs of plate mail is just to easy.  I'll save the typical water scenario and demand every roll.