Topic: RoCo1 Skil at Arms/Magic

[Tywyll]

So I lived these tables back in the day, even though I felt they were a bit...strong.

Does anyone use them as is? Do you find the attribute mods too extreme (especially if using the high attribute benefits from RoCo3 and 5)?

Just curious what impact they have.

[Majyk]

Same, always went back to these tables as a GM or a Player convincing GMs to use ‘em vs the ChL randomness Special Abilities randomness.

Always Random(back in my day! ; always two rolls per Option, then player picks between them; always a free set of 2x rolls if a Player kept a “Flaw” result of 1-10 on them!

Re: the bumps for Stats:
I’d fold the bonus gained into a PC’s Potential Stat that they’d eventually possess, then raise the Temp Stat to the new Potential - this was in order for that same PC to possibly end up getting a Type A-D Pick from RM2’s RoCoIII’s(V’s as you say) Optional Special Stat Abilities.

So, if a PC had a Potential of ‘100’ for a Stat that they’d rolled a +15 through +25(to insert Stat name here) for, I’d take that bonus and add it on top of the +25 they’d eventually receive and look it up on the conversion chart for exactly what Temp that Bonus would then be converted into(in this case a +40 to +50 Pot. Bonus becomes a new Pot. Stat of 103-105.
For anything less than that, the PC would receive the bump to this new level also so a PC with a ‘90’ Pot. stat and a +15 from the table would end up having a new ‘100’ Temp/Pot. Stat.

It helped me explain why Players would see the odd God, High Level NPC, or BBEG with “over 101 Stats” in the books.

Yes, a touch overpowered but I ran more High Magic games.

[Hurin]

I found the stat bumps to be too overpowered, so I allowed rolls on the charts, but we discounted the stat bumps.

[Tywyll]

Same, always went back to these tables as a GM or a Player convincing GMs to use ‘em vs the ChL randomness Special Abilities randomness.

Always Random(back in my day! ; always two rolls per Option, then player picks between them; always a free set of 2x rolls if a Player kept a “Flaw” result of 1-10 on them!

Re: the bumps for Stats:
I’d fold the bonus gained into a PC’s Potential Stat that they’d eventually possess, then raise the Temp Stat to the new Potential - this was in order for that same PC to possibly end up getting a Type A-D Pick from RM2’s RoCoIII’s(V’s as you say) Optional Special Stat Abilities.

So, if a PC had a Potential of ‘100’ for a Stat that they’d rolled a +15 through +25(to insert Stat name here) for, I’d take that bonus and add it on top of the +25 they’d eventually receive and look it up on the conversion chart for exactly what Temp that Bonus would then be converted into(in this case a +40 to +50 Pot. Bonus becomes a new Pot. Stat of 103-105.
For anything less than that, the PC would receive the bump to this new level also so a PC with a ‘90’ Pot. stat and a +15 from the table would end up having a new ‘100’ Temp/Pot. Stat.

It helped me explain why Players would see the odd God, High Level NPC, or BBEG with “over 101 Stats” in the books.

Yes, a touch overpowered but I ran more High Magic games.

That sounds like a cool way to deal with it!

[Malim]

We used them as potential stat bonus, not stat bonus!

[Spectre771]

I think maybe I'm reading the question as posted here incorrectly or we've always interpreted the bonus differently.

Skill at Arms roll of 44-52 = +15 to AG modification.

If the PCs AG stats is 91, the bonus is +10
Racial Bonus of Grey Elf +5 (just picking at random)
Now add the the bonus modification from the Skill at Arms and the total bonus is +30  (10 + 5 + 15)

The AG stat itself does not go from 91 -> 106  The bonus receives the +15 modification, not the stat.

In RMCIII, the Innate Stat Abilities is based on the value of the Stat, not the stat bonus.  While AG is 91, when calculating the skill totals, say for Cookery (RE/AG) you add the RE bonus (+0 Grey Elf + AG 30) / 2 = +15.  Climbing is AG which = +30 bonus.

RMC-I Race Abilities chart States "Stat Bonus Modifications."  The modifications from Skill at Arms/Magic apply to those stat modifications, not the value of the stat.

On the rare occasion an player rolls a 100 for a potential stat, they can opt to spend a background option to raise one stat by 2 or three stats by 1.  The players inevitably opted to make the 100 stat into a 102 stat.

There are magic items they could find that would further raise their stat values even higher, but those required lengthy quests.

[The Chorned Jat]

That was also my interpretation BITD Spectre

[Elrich Maltah]

I think maybe I'm reading the question as posted here incorrectly or we've always interpreted the bonus differently.

Skill at Arms roll of 44-52 = +15 to AG modification.

If the PCs AG stats is 91, the bonus is +10
Racial Bonus of Grey Elf +5 (just picking at random)
Now add the the bonus modification from the Skill at Arms and the total bonus is +30  (10 + 5 + 15)

The AG stat itself does not go from 91 -> 106  The bonus receives the +15 modification, not the stat.

In RMCIII, the Innate Stat Abilities is based on the value of the Stat, not the stat bonus.  While AG is 91, when calculating the skill totals, say for Cookery (RE/AG) you add the RE bonus (+0 Grey Elf + AG 30) / 2 = +15.  Climbing is AG which = +30 bonus.

RMC-I Race Abilities chart States "Stat Bonus Modifications."  The modifications from Skill at Arms/Magic apply to those stat modifications, not the value of the stat.

On the rare occasion an player rolls a 100 for a potential stat, they can opt to spend a background option to raise one stat by 2 or three stats by 1.  The players inevitably opted to make the 100 stat into a 102 stat.

There are magic items they could find that would further raise their stat values even higher, but those required lengthy quests.

Yep, that's always how I've known the system to work, too. If we got the GM in a favorable mood, we could sometimes convince him to use the option in RMC6 to base the innate stat abilities on total bonus rather than stat value, so as to incorporate any extra racial or stat mods gained elsewhere.

[intothatdarkness]

That was also my interpretation BITD Spectre

+1 here. I used those charts regularly. RoCo 1 was always my favorite.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

On the rare occasion an player rolls a 100 for a potential stat, they can opt to spend a background option to raise one stat by 2 or three stats by 1.  The players inevitably opted to make the 100 stat into a 102 stat.

I always shudder at this, considering the option (from Ch&CL) explicitly states "Increase one stat by 2 or three stats by 1 each; both temporaries and potentials (to a maximum of 101)".

[Hurin]

Yes, and it became especially powerful since each increment after 100 added an additional +5 to the stat bonus. It was ripe for munchkinism.

[Spectre771]

On the rare occasion an player rolls a 100 for a potential stat, they can opt to spend a background option to raise one stat by 2 or three stats by 1.  The players inevitably opted to make the 100 stat into a 102 stat.

I always shudder at this, considering the option (from Ch&CL) explicitly states "Increase one stat by 2 or three stats by 1 each; both temporaries and potentials (to a maximum of 101)".

Yes, you are correct.  We did limit it to 101 now that you mention it.  I do recall that limit now.

[Dunadan]

I initially used them in my games, but also found them to be "strong" and ripe for exploitation.

After a bit of tweaking, I offered a max of one roll on either table.  Cost = 1 BGO for random or 3 BGO to choose.  If the player spends 3 x BGO to choose, no result >89 (ie can only get +20 or better via random roll).