Topic: RMU, purchasing stats

[Thot]

RMU Core Law states on page 73:

Purchasing Stats
Some Gamemasters will prefer to have players buy
their stats with a set number of points rather than
relying on the randomness of the dice [...]

Roll the potentials as normal, including any swaps
but none of the adjustments, and discard the rolled
temporaries and purchase temporaries instead.

I find this weird. Why not simply purchase the potentials as well, with a higher point count and with the limitation that no potential may be lower than the associated temporal stat?

If I wanted to include some randomness, I'd rather swap it: Roll the temporaries, but point-buy the potentials.

After all, point-buy is meant for balance. But if potentials are still randomly determined, that balance will be gone after a few levels, once everybody has reached their max. Isn't this inherently unbalanced?

[jdale]

Potentials are rolled to keep things balanced if you want to give your players the option of random or point-buy. If you aren't concerned about that (e.g. everyone will use point-buy), personally I don't think the potentials are even needed. Your potential is whatever stat you reach by the time stat gains end (which ought to be around 20-25th level). We did this in the beta but there were considerable objections because of the balance issue, resulting in the current rule.

While in RMSS, people typically reached their potentials around 6-7th level, that's not the case in RMU. Stat gains are much slower and consequently the temporary stats will matter much more than potentials for most campaigns.

[nash]

While in RMSS, people typically reached their potentials around 6-7th level, that's not the case in RMU. Stat gains are much slower and consequently the temporary stats will matter much more than potentials for most campaigns.

Meaningful stat gain was often over at level 3 in RMSS - a stat of 90 with a potential of 90-100 gives a 50% chance of hitting that in 1 level.  Chance of hitting your potential of 100 in 2 levels is 74% (I think).   Chance of a 90 temp reaching a 95 potential in 2 levels is something like 94%.

RMSS stat gain was absurdly fast.

[Thot]

Potentials are rolled to keep things balanced if you want to give your players the option of random or point-buy. If you aren't concerned about that (e.g. everyone will use point-buy), personally I don't think the potentials are even needed.

Well, they do offer an additional opportunity to feel the advancement of level-ups. It's just a little fun mini-game, in my opinion.

While in RMSS, people typically reached their potentials around 6-7th level, that's not the case in RMU. Stat gains are much slower and consequently the temporary stats will matter much more than potentials for most campaigns.

Still, buying both (the potentials with a higher point count) seems more ssensible to me.

Obviosly it's not a big issue, because of all things that are houseruled, stats and how to handle them were always the most houseruled of all. But I find it curious.

[jaesyk]

Still, buying both (the potentials with a higher point count) seems more ssensible to me.

Obviosly it's not a big issue, because of all things that are houseruled, stats and how to handle them were always the most houseruled of all. But I find it curious.

I agree with this. Random stat generation mixed with point buy isnt to my liking. I will have to house rule this if I have a chance at getting my group to give RMU a chance.

[katastrophe]

This fits with the oddities in the game that preserved 80s design principles through to the 2020s version of the game. I’ll not fully restate my thoughts on just having the bonus and dropping the numbers altogether but it would totally eliminate this issue.

Even using the “number” stats however, differentiating between potential and temporary has a silliness and adds a minutia that’s not really necessary.

It just seems better design to Allow players to purchase their characters’ stats with points (make it part of the initial DP allotment) and assign an escalating cost to stats so higher stats cost more. If a player wants the character to improve their stats over time from what was bought initially, allow them to spend DPs like everything else. Eliminate the rolls and just pay for the stat being sought. Since the costs escalate there’s no fear of a player just spamming increased stats as they’d have no skill ranks or spells.

Chargen and advancement should be the least random game elements and frankly the most meta and player controlled in the game. The player shouldn’t have to rely on randomness to get the character they want to play. That’s the main reason I’ve never understood the whole “roll randomly for your stats”

Players should sit at the table and say “I envision playing Joe Strong a fighter with a high STR and QUI who is also kinda smart and skills heavy” and be able to design exactly that within the points framework alotted.

There shouldn’t be situations where the player says “damn, I rolled bad and can’t make what I want to make” oh well. Guess I’ll scrap this one and start over until I get the rolled stats that support my concept. That’s pretty silly and honestly unbalanced.

That’s why I’m nearly every game I’ve played for any length of time, that’s not even a possibility.

[jdale]

As I said, if you always use point-buy, in my opinion it's fine to completely dispense with potentials. They are there only for balance with random stats, so if there are no random stats, they are unnecessary. I think that addresses those concerns.

I don't like point-buy for potentials because it forces you to make decisions about the end point for your character, when you are creating your character and potentially don't have a great sense of how everything fits together, rather than allowing you to develop in an open-ended fashion. Eliminating potentials entirely is better.

[Thot]

Thanks, I see your line of reasoning.

But I'll keep potentials, because as I said, it's a fun little minigame. I'll just use the "average potentials" column in the powerlevel table to compute the point total with which to buy potentials.

[MisterK]

I don't like point-buy for potentials because it forces you to make decisions about the end point for your character, when you are creating your character and potentially don't have a great sense of how everything fits together, rather than allowing you to develop in an open-ended fashion. Eliminating potentials entirely is better.

On the other hand, you are choosing a profession, which is far more critical in deciding the end point for your character (unless the game allows profession switches). Choosing potentials at start is in the same spirit - the end point is pre-ordained in a way.

I'm not saying having point-buy for potentials is better or worse, just that it is not unreasonable.

I tend to go for a mix of both : your potential starts as the average depending on your temp stat (I use the averages from RMSS), and then you have 20 points to allocate to increase those potentials, with two restrictions:
- you cannot go above 100
- going from 99 to 100 costs 5 points instead of 1.

Since I also use standard spread for initial stats (90, 2x80, 2x70, 2x60, 2x50, 40), it makes choices easier but still significant. The only potential problem is that it cannot cope with extreme character concepts (for instance, a stereotypical 'brawn without brains', with very high physical stats and low mental stats). But I tend to dislike that kind of extreme anyway, so it's not too bitter a pill to swallow :p

[Ecthelion]

What we thought about is using the point-buy method from the RMU rules for the temporary stats plus using the RMSS rules for generating potential stats, with the sole exception that a maximum of 3 D10 can be used for rolling these potential stats. The variance in stats generated this way is much smaller than using the random stat generation method from the RMU rules, the player can create a character he wants to play and the average of the potential stats is still very close to the averages given in the RMU rules.