Topic: Level-less Rolemaster X?

[Elton Robb]

With spell scaling, would it be possible to more easily house rule away the levels in Rolemaster?

[David Johansen]

I don't know.  Skill ranks are tied to levels and the limit per level is used to prevent the kind of overspecialized character that turns up in a straight point buy game like GURPS (40 points for Guns at 24, what else do I need?).

Similarly the diminishing returns per rank are very strongly linked to the power level expected at a given level.  RMSS training packages make a mess of this of course.

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

Trash levels, trash DPs, skill use is decided by the gm, skill progression occurs if certain conditions are met. I've worked on some easy math to do this according to the number of rank. Needs tweaking.

[shnar]

I played in a leveless campaign once, it was rather ingenious how the progression was. I don't remember all the details, but here are some of the basics:

Using a skills is how you increased that skill. At the end of a "segment" of time, if you used your skill you would roll to see if it increased by +1. The formula was I think this:

 D100 Open-Ended + 100 - Current Skill > 100

If the result was greater than 100, then the skill immediately went up by 1 point. I think if it was less than 0, it went down by a point. The period of time was defined as a period of "stress". The was usually combat, though other static rolls would also grant a skill-gain roll.

3 times per "game month" a player could say he was practicing a certain skill and get 3 free rolls.

Body Development happened whenever a player took hit points. At the end of whatever the cause was (i.e. end of combat), then you would roll for Body Dev increase just like any other skill.

While there were still levels, it did not dictate how your skills progressed, they were only used for Resistance Rolls and knowing in general how "tough" your opponent might have been. Every 5 pts in Body Development you increased would increase you one level.

I don't remember how spells were increased in this system (I don't think any of us were spell users)...

-shnar

[sunwolf]

The skills increase sounds a lot like how Runequest works

[shnar]

He also used an activity-point based combat system. He would start at 0, you would declare an action that took X number of points, and then he'd start counting up. 1, 2, 3, etc. A basic attack I think was 10pts, +/- depending on weapon speed (daggers had negative weapon speed, 2H weapons had positive). So if you declared a broadsword attack, at pt 10 you would roll and do your damage then declare what your next action is and wait until that action was executed.

If your action was execute on the same phase as someone else, I think the higher QU went first, or maybe there was a QU roll.

It was an interesting campaign but was 20 years ago.

-shnar

[pastaav]

With spell scaling, would it be possible to more easily house rule away the levels in Rolemaster?

Short answer: No

Longer answer: RR are in RM tied to level, but changing that to resistance skills or body develoment is a no brainer. The same applies to spell casting, you can use the rules as written but base casting level on number of ranks in the spell list or the number of power point progression ranks. In my games I tie spell casting to power point progression and it works like a charm. Spell scaling might be desirable for other reasons, but easing the move to level less is not one of those.

I think the single thing that make removing levels in RM an effort is DP cost structure. When the cost of a skill is 3/7 it implies you buy the skill during a time period, or else the second cost would not be greater. Remove levels and it is very hard to motivate RMs cost stucture for skills. Possibly a solution might be to going a bit meta and say that the time period is the time spent between sessions. If I want two ranks before the next session I pay the increased price, if I want the lower price I must spread the purchases over more sessions. The only real downside with that approach would be that every player would get a very rapid climb in combat abilities since there is no reason to not buy these skills between every session.

[providence13]

In my games I tie spell casting to power point progression and it works like a charm.

Pastaav, if I may, can you elaborate on this a bit?
Does one List advance as fast as PP progression?
 
base casting level on number of ranks in the spell list or the number of power point progression ranks.

Or are the affects of the spell Lists (range, duration, AoE) based on a maximum of Ranks in PP dev?

We cast at Rank, so level is of little consequence.. but I do like to hear different methods.

[pastaav]

In my games I tie spell casting to power point progression and it works like a charm.

Pastaav, if I may, can you elaborate on this a bit?

Gladly. Basically the prime motivation for the houserule is the problem that with the core rules high level fighters with a few ranks in spell lists get very long durations on the spell.

When we decided to solve the problem we first looked into making the number of ranks in spell list to be the casting level of the caster. The thing that I do not like with that solution is that it is counter intuitive that a fighter who want to improve the duration of his shield spell will purchase spell lists ranks that he lacks the power point to cast. You could of course argue that fighter should be prepared to dish out the DP, but the number of DP needed just for power points is IMO reasonable enough.
 
The solution was to decide that the number of power point ranks decide the duration, range and similar. Theory wise it makes great sense that high number of power points equal a strong attack level for the spell.

Actually the real twister is that we apply the same reasoning for cross realm casting. Below I have the added the houserules used.

*every realm need a separate power point development skill
*casting level for a realm equals number of ranks in powerpoint development for that realm
*power point fatigue is calculated as sum of penalties from all realms if character has more than one
power point source.
*thresholds for power point fatigue is determined for each realm separately
*SCSM (spell casting static maneuver) is needed for all realms if any realm is causing power point
fatigue
*hybrid realm characters has one single power point skill for both realms
*arcane casters has one single power point skill for all realms
*power point development for another realm is a restricted skill
*ability to learn other realm spells and other realm power point development require the character
to have teacher from that realm.

[Dark Schneider]

In other words, you changed the PP dev. to realm skill, and the skill in that realm obviously has attached the capacity to cast more spells, this is, the PPs.

Seeing it in this way is easier I think

[pastaav]

In other words, you changed the PP dev. to realm skill, and the skill in that realm obviously has attached the capacity to cast more spells, this is, the PPs.

Seeing it in this way is easier I think

Oh...that was a clever way to explain it.

[Greyaxe]

In other words, you changed the PP dev. to realm skill, and the skill in that realm obviously has attached the capacity to cast more spells, this is, the PPs.

Seeing it in this way is easier I think

Oh...that was a clever way to explain it.

That is hella cool. I am totally gonna try that. One concern however. Is the limit on PP progression; one rank per level. With few exceptions your level will almost always determine the max number of ranks in PP progression, so really this simply nerfs the high level non and semi spell casters from comparing to the pure spell casters; but I expect that is the goal.

[Greyaxe]

The skills increase sounds a lot like how Runequest works

Cyberpunk also. It gets tedious and uncontrollable.