Topic: Recuperation RM Style

[RandalThor]

Here is the real quick (like put together in about a half-an-hour) rules on Recuperation for RM:

Option A: Each individual can recoup a number of Hits per day equal to their Body Development Stat bonus up to one-half their Con bonus times.

Option B.1: Recoup 10% of total hits a number of times per day equal to their Body Development stat bonus divided by 3. [(Co/SD/Co)/3 - round down]
Option B.2: Recoup 10% of total hits a number of times per day equal to BD ranks/2 (round down).

No matter the option, the individual must rest at least one-half hour to recoup any hits. Resting does not need to be sleep, but they do need to not be moving, suffering from no encumbrance modifier, and be at least sitting down. They may try to get rest even if they have one or more of the above conditions still in place, and they may try to lessen the amount of time it takes to recoup the hits. To do either of these things takes a Recuperation Check.

Recuperation Check Overcoming persisting conditions

Co/SD/Co + BD Ranks - 25 per condition. A Full Success is needed.

Recuperation Check To shorten the rest period

Co/SD/Co + BD Ranks -40

Success = -5 min (25 min)
Absolute Success = -10 min (20 min)
Unusual Success = -20 min (10 min)
Failure to Near Success = No change
Absolute Failure = +10 Min. (40 min)
Spectacular Failure = No rest, possible extra damage if you are feeling evil. 

No matter what, only hits can be healed this way. Criticals and their effects can only be healed in the usual ways.

Well, check it out and shoot! 

[kevinmccollum]

Is this a proposed rule?

RM2 rules give one hit per hour while resting, one third that while active. Modified by race. (dwarves heal twice as fast, fair elves one third as fast)

[mibsweden]

Is this a proposed rule?

RM2 rules give one hit per hour while resting, one third that while active. Modified by race. (dwarves heal twice as fast, fair elves one third as fast)

Oooo just love the elegance and simplicity of the RM2 rules

[Dark Schneider]

In RMFRP you fill that in your character sheet and is based on CO stat.

[Hurin]

Some good suggestions here, but I see problems with the first way for those characters who have negative CON bonuses.

Why not just make it simpler: for each 8 hour rest or 24-period of activity, everyone gets back a number of hits equal to:

[(CON stat/10) + (CON bonus/10) + (ranks in Body Development)]

You could also modify this by racial recovery multiplier.

The only other problem I see with this is that characters tend to have higher total hits at higher levels, but their recovery times will not keep pace with their increase in hits. A fighter with 150 total hits who takes half his hits in damage will take a lot longer to return to full hits than a fighter with 80 hits who takes half hits in damage. Adding ranks in Body Development to the equation above helps a bit, but doesn't completely solve the problem.

That's the real problem with just giving players back 1 hit per hour when resting as well... that 150 hit point fighter is going to take 6 days to get back to full, wehreas the 80 hitpoint fighter will only take three... that just doesn't seem right. So there has to be some way for characters to increase the speed with which they get back hits.

[kevinmccollum]

That's the real problem with just giving players back 1 hit per hour when resting as well... that 150 hit point fighter is going to take 6 days to get back to full, wehreas the 80 hitpoint fighter will only take three... that just doesn't seem right. So there has to be some way for characters to increase the speed with which they get back hits.

Really? so if I beat you with a stick to near unconsiousness, you will recover completely in a few hours? I like the recovery system. It is much faster than the old AD&D system. And, if you are "adventuring" without access to some form of healer, you won't be living long enough for it to really matter.

[Hurin]

That's the real problem with just giving players back 1 hit per hour when resting as well... that 150 hit point fighter is going to take 6 days to get back to full, wehreas the 80 hitpoint fighter will only take three... that just doesn't seem right. So there has to be some way for characters to increase the speed with which they get back hits.

Really? so if I beat you with a stick to near unconsiousness, you will recover completely in a few hours? I like the recovery system. It is much faster than the old AD&D system. And, if you are "adventuring" without access to some form of healer, you won't be living long enough for it to really matter.

I think you misunderstood my post.

The problem was not that characters take a long time to recover-- they should, just as people take a long time to recover from savage beatings in real life.

The problem is that the higher your total hits go, the longer you take to recover-- the exact opposite of what should happen in a system where level is a general indicator of power. The game is essentially making it so that when you get more powerful (i.e. gain levels) you get less powerful (i.e. take longer to recover completely from your wounds). That is the problem.

The solution seems to me to be to tie recovery to level or to a skill that can be increased, such as body development. This will mean that higher level characters don't take any longer to recover to full health than lower level characters.

[kevinmccollum]

Levels = power or do levels = skill?

I don't think a level should affect the recovery of "hit points" which is simply a measure of the amount of pain and bleeding the character can withstand before succumbing to shock or unconsciousness.

[RandalThor]

The recuperation rule was my (rough/quick) attempt at putting together a combined exhaustion/hits sytem - and came from the medeival combat thread (sorry forgot to mention that, my bad  ). It reflects the idea that you can "rest up" and regain some of your lost EP/Hits (I would like to go with End for the sake of ease) without having to sleep overnight, like taking those 20-30 minute breaks during a hike. Because the End doesn't reflect serious injury - criticals do - in this system it makes sense that you would be able to take a break and feel a little better afterwards, imo.

Even when talking about injury, your body adapts somewhat so that you can (hopefully) continue to act enough to stay alive. Pain receeds, it's a survival mechanism in the vast majority of us. The initial pain goes away somewhat so that you aren't dibilitated. That does not mean there aren't those injuries that are too damaging to "put aside' and this rule takes that into account:

No matter what, only hits can be healed this way. Criticals and their effects can only be healed in the usual ways.

This means that only those negative modifiers that come from the lost of End (Hits) can be dealt with this way. Those criticals that give you mods stay until truly healed.

[Marc R]

I do fully get the logic that it shouldn't take a troll with 250 hits longer to recover than a shopkeeper human with 20. .  . .

To a degree you might front load this a lot, and say that any semi permanent injury would include a negative modifier wound. . . .even a serious bruise.

In context of the other thread, equating hits to exhaustion. . . .that hits are just the "knocked the wind out of me" and related totally ephemeral damage. . . .

If you want to equate hits with exhaustion, you need to push the recovery rates past even the regeneration talent rates. . . . .

if effort and whupping are the same, you need to be able to recover a lot of them fast. . . .or else you'll run a 500 yard dash, collapse and need to sleep for 8 hours to get back up.

[Dark Schneider]

I see the CO as the real body toughness, and the body dev as the character damage resistance, we can train our damage resistance, but the body regeneration is in relation with our body toughness, that is CO plus the race mod time.

If somebody wants to have a HP relative system, it is very simple, use a % for activity, another % for resting and another % for sleeping. So is only for each one to choose their desired % per hour.

[providence13]

The problem is that the higher your total hits go, the longer you take to recover-- the exact opposite of what should happen in a system where level is a general indicator of power. The game is essentially making it so that when you get more powerful (i.e. gain levels) you get less powerful (i.e. take longer to recover completely from your wounds). That is the problem.

IMHO, the higher lvl you are, the older you are and the slower you heal/mend/work out the kinks in joints etc..
Now this works for me, in my games, but it may not work for anyone else. A person in their 40's - 50's may have far more hits than a teenager. Now both individuals are injured to with in 1/3 of "consciousness". I would guess the younger one to snap back quicker without penalty. The older one will be able to keep going, more hits, more ranks in BD, Stun Rem, etc, but will take longer to shrug off all the penalties... because they have more hits. If they both have the same "deep tissue bruise," I would expect the younger to heal faster and the older to take longer to heal (completely), but be able to keep going longer; (That's nothing! Do ya see this scar...")
 

[kevinmccollum]

I don't have a problem with the system as it is. I imagine if I was in a fight and beaten (without broken bones, damaged muscles, etc) to within an inch of unconsciousness, it WOULD take a few days to stop feeling sore.

Folks, I started playing RM back in the early 80's because it was a game that didnt mess around and didn't heavily favor the PC over the npc. Since then, almost all of the rules proposals and even actual rules introduced have made it easier for the PC. If you want a game where it is easy to adventure, recover, etc, there is D&D 4e. very much a game for those who want an easy time.

What to focus on? Maybe some race books compatible with RMC and RMFRP (or whatever it is called now) like the Underground Races book. I would like to see something along the lines of an herb book for rolemaster, much like Hands of the Healer for ME.

[RandalThor]

I don't have a problem with the system as it is. I imagine if I was in a fight and beaten (without broken bones, damaged muscles, etc) to within an inch of unconsciousness, it WOULD take a few days to stop feeling sore.

For some of us, it doesn't take a butt-whuppin. A couple hours at the gym or nice long game of tennis, and I can be sore for a couple of days. Aging really blows. :'(

I can live the system as it is now too, but I feel that it is always good to continue to look for other, hopefully better, ways to do things. Plus, I feel the Hit system isn't the best. For me, I think it is more realistic/natural to say the individual (and I say individual because NPCs can use this system just like PCs) learns to move better and lessen the blows than to day they get tougher. Did they increase their Co or thier Str? No. Then how did they get "tougher"?

With the attack tables, a higher DB directly affects how much damage they recieve from any given attack. This, to me, is a better indicator of experience and capability to limit damage, not an arbitrary number of hits saying you can take more damage.

I am pretty-sure that I can take about the same amount of damage as I could at 18 before being classified as moderately hurt, seriously hurt, etc. It certainly takes the same amount of damage to kill me now as it did then - before I spent years in the Marine Corps and the study of various martial arts. The only things I am better at now are: 1) keeping from being hit as often or as hard, and 2) being able to push aside the pain of injury to keep going. (Though, maybe not as good as I was in my late 20's. Again, there is that aging thing.) Both of those I feel are better represented through 2 skills/abilities: Pain resistance (lessening negative mods from injury), and Combat Movement (increasing base DB).

But this is just how I look at it.

I would also love some more races books like Underground Races. Man, I loved the Gnolls in that book - they were totally awesome!

[providence13]

Along the lines of recuperation, IMHO, the large number of playable races do seem like variations on the same theme. Just some of the details are changed.. all of the small races are at .5 Recovery Multiplier. ?
Cause they are so small?

[mibsweden]

I really don't know enough to know what rule is more realistic than the other when it comes to regaining hit points.

I use the hit point per hour rule since it is easy to remember and is not overly complicated. The strength of RM's healing recovery system is and has always been the critical damage recoveries.

But there could definately be some sort of optional rule for those who would like Body Development/Constitution/Self Discipline to affect the hit point recovery rate.

[RandalThor]

Along the lines of recuperation, IMHO, the large number of playable races do seem like variations on the same theme. Just some of the details are changed.. all of the small races are at .5 Recovery Multiplier. ?
Cause they are so small?

If I am not mistaken (always a possibility  )that has nothing to do with the hits recuperation but with the amount of time it takes to heal from some of the injuries. Like if it takes 8 days to heal the injury*, an individual with a .5 recovery multiplier takes only 4 days, so in effect it is saying it takes that race half the time to recover from injuries. Saying they are great healers.

*The Healing Recovery Table T-5.4 (pg. 76, RMFRP) gives the healing time of injuries by the degree of injury.

[thrud]

To keep things easy.
One could possibly use the con bonus as a modifier?
A +10 con bonus = 10% faster hit recovery? or something like that?
If somehow there would be someone with a +100 con bonus that would translate into 100% faster = half the recovery time.
For every hour multiply the hits recovered by the modifier. A +25 would equate to a 1.25 hits per hour instead of just 1.

[Dark Schneider]

I see no problem, one thing that has RM is that, having excellent core rules, it is very flexible, and the use of house rules is not a problem at all (not a rigid system like D&D for example).

Then, think how many days you think a human (with the base time mod. x1) needs to recover all HPs, and use it as %. While activity you can use 1 HP/hour for each 10 ranks in body dev (1 HP/hr 1-10 ranks, 2 HP/hr 11-20 ranks, etc.).

All any other combination you want, don't fear to use your own rules as I am sure each one uses them (their own rules) too. If you think it should be in that way, apply it  

One could possibly use the con bonus as a modifier?

No IMO, CO is is used in another way, when rolling in healing table. Is used for HP/hr in core system, but if the % system is used for HPs, it is implicit as if you have more HPs you recover more HPs per hour, so I didn't like to apply CO so many times as cummulative benefit.
We have a race mod, and our CO is applied for that race, but that should not be an "offset" for race mod.

[Hurin]

I don't have a problem with the system as it is. I imagine if I was in a fight and beaten (without broken bones, damaged muscles, etc) to within an inch of unconsciousness, it WOULD take a few days to stop feeling sore. 

You keep repeating this in this thread, but I don't think anyone is seriously disputing that it should take a long time to get to 100%.

What we are wondering is: should there be a way to recover some (not all, but some) hits quickly, on the assumption that these are the 'just had the wind knocked out of me, need 5 mins to get my bearings' type of hits; and should there be a way for people with higher hits to recover them more quickly, since it seems unrealistic to some of us that tougher characters take longer to recover.