Topic: SpaceMaster Express

[enelson]

Hey -

Since RM has Express and HARP has SF, will there be a SME?

Thanks!

Eric

[yammahoper]

 

 

Realize, SM is the forgotton stepchild of ICE currently.

Please forgive my pessimism.  Long, hot day.

lynn

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

don't know yet..... Need to see how things are, and then determine whether or not such a product would be feasible....

[ironmaul]

Actually, I would like to see it done. I have the books but couldn't get into the feel of it at the time, probably too many life issues at the time. I really can't say that I feel inspired to learn it's rules even though it's apparently simular to RMSS. RMSS was a big enough pain in the arse to try and learn.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I would like to see it done as well. The question is.... "Can it be done?"

Can a 96 page (or less) product be created that gives all of the basics needed for a scifi game based on ANY version of the Rolemaster rules?

Where fantasy is relatively straight-forward and unchanging, regardless of the setting details, scifi has too many variants and variations to select from in many cases.

[ironmaul]

Well, that's probably true. I guess only SM fans could really answer that one. (I assume you have your cloak of invisibility on? you don't register on the forums.)

[David Johansen]

I would like to see it done as well. The question is.... "Can it be done?"

Can a 96 page (or less) product be created that gives all of the basics needed for a scifi game based on ANY version of the Rolemaster rules?

Where fantasy is relatively straight-forward and unchanging, regardless of the setting details, scifi has too many variants and variations to select from in many cases.

Sure, heck, I'm half way there as you well know.  And the attack tables from SPAM are already pretty cooked down.  The real problem is ICE's limited resources and current direction.  The course is laid in so it would have to be SM2 not SPAM.  Also, Space Master in general competes with HARP sf at present which is also not in ICE's interest.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

No, there is no "course laid in".  And ICE currently has no plans on reviving SM2 in any form.

If you could do it with SPAM, ICE would certainly look at and consider it (note: I would not be the final decision maker).

HARP SF and Spacemaster actually do not compete against one another.. Both fill the same niche in entirely different styles of play....

Thus, the two work together to bring ICE a much wider customer base overall.... instead of just limiting it only those who like one style versus another style.....

ICE is a small company, and we do sometimes seem to be concentrating on one thing to the exclusion of others, but that is not quite the case. For example, while we seem to be concentrating on RMC, Rob is working on a RMFRP book (in addition to doing the PDF periodicals for HARP, SPAM, and RMFRP; not to mention his own product lines (he is a VERY, VERY busy guy)), Nick is working on HARP SF and a HARP fantasy book, We have somebody else working on some RMC stuff, and we are also trying to get going with adventures for all the systems (starting with fantasy, yes....) (and I have some potential authors that I need to get back with regarding this.... sigh.. I am soooo far behind and buried in stuff)

ICE has some long range plans in motion and sometimes it takes a while to get them moving, and sometimes we have to give more attention to some parts than to others. (i.e. like  getting the core of RMC released so that we can get other things started, in order to reclaim the old RM2 fan-base with new products, bring them back into the fold, etc..)

Send me some more information about the Accelorator, so I can show it to Bruce (i.e. write up a proposal for it...) and then we can see where we can go from there...

[David Johansen]

The Accelerator appeared here in the March Guild Companion: http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2007/mar/spacemasteraccelerator.html

I've also got the first couple pages of an adventure in the Privateers universe.  Not to mention sculpts of a Kagoth, Oort, and Tulgar in 28mm.  The Valiesian is close to done.  I don't have a digital camera, but I might be able to scan them.

For the attack tables and vehicles I'd probably just use the ones that appear in the SPAM core book.

[Marc R]

SM:P always seemed to have "stepped in" far more successfully to replace the old SM, though there are some die hards. Since SM:P is the only "Live" version, it would be the version SME would be crafted out of I assume. (Assuming it was done).

There isn't yet an intention I've heard to do SMC, so would it be possible to carve SM:P back to 100 pages or less in one system book? I dunno that you could even take RME's basic mechanics, rip out the magic chapter, and replace it with a tech chapter, and stay inside 100 pages. SM tech, gear, ships, skills for tech. . . .I could be wrong but it would seem like all that would take up a bunch more space than the "Dirt simple magic" section of RME. . .perhaps I'm wrong.

DJ: S'funny, there's a guy with your name I keep seeing aggressively bashing ICE and it's games all the time on other boards, and I keep thinking you're him, which you pretty apparently are not. Considering how common my name is, I should know better. 

[David Johansen]

No, that's me.

I've been unhappy with ICE's direction pretty much since HARP came out.  Which is coincidentally pretty much when RMSS and SPAM support started to dry up.

I wouldn't say I bash ICE's games, I just point out why RMSS is better and why HARP shouldn't be.

Anyhow, yes I'm a whiney bitch, no I'm not the owner of the company, and no ICE doesn't owe me anything.  Which is a big part of my problem.  As with GURPS, Traveller, Savage Worlds, D&D and pretty much every game out there I have no control over where it's going so I find it very hard to be motivated to write much for it.

RM2 and HARP have more issues that I find unacceptable than first and third edition D&D combined.  My only real complaint with RMSS is that the number of skill ranks coming from cultural and training packages should always have matched the number of ranks so you could just divide the development points by two and treat the categories as skills if you wanted.  Also it would have been nice if all the skill ranks from packages in categories were assigned to specific skills so you wouldn't have had to flip to the skill list so often.

[David Johansen]

On the other hand, nobody else seems to mind when the RM2 fans crap on RMSS so I guess I'm just crapping on the wrong ICE games to be one of the kewl kidz.

[Marc R]

Not me, it's just not my preference. They're two different means to similar ends, and I'll fully admit to lifting materials left and right out of RMFRP for my RMC games. (If I were asked to give a pros-cons list of both RMC and RMFRP I'd certainly have pros and cons on both sides of the tally.) My choice has to do with my feeling the particular set of pros and cons of RMC suit me. The capacity to be edited down to a TinyCore version is a feature of RMC that would probably be more difficult with RMFRP. . .what I consider it's best features are it's completeness and level of detail, both of which IMO imply the need for, well, a large enough chunk of "level of detail" to be considered "complete".
I've made some personal effort to step on the fratricidal conflict whenever I see it.
I'd say the word is "Retro" not "Cool". . . .we are talking RPGs here. 

But on topic, it just strikes me that Sci-Fi takes a different kind of detail than fantasy due to the magic to tech shift. . .even a SM without psions would need a boatload of tech details and info to be complete in a small package. It might be possible to cull it back and give a complete enough listing, but the headers in my head seem a huge list. . .I might be mistaken, as I said. . .nobody's tried to do it as far as I know. . .If the project gets the green light, whoever does it might just surprise me by pulling it off.

[ironmaul]

Drop the aliens and psionics for startes. Maybe a basic tech level? >shugs< just throwing ideas around.

[David Johansen]

Taking a look at my SPAM core book I find 4 pages of equipment, 30 or so pages of attack tables and critical charts, and 7 races at a page a piece and 7 pages dealing with vehicles.  So we're up to 48 pages for all that stuff.  There's also 8 pages of professions and 6 of training packages.  Then there's 39 pages of skill descriptions.  43 pages of background and fluff.

If my math is right that's 146 pages out of a 272 page book.  The rest is just rules.

As I'm thinking about it, the temptation to do a slightly evolved version of the rules would be pretty great.  If there's one thing that drives me nuts its the Tech / Trade, Science / Techincal divide in SPAM.  It pretty much guarantees that players are going to get painfully confused.

I also think it would be easier to do a lite version of SPAM than of RMSS because there are no spell lists.  It's pretty easy to cut the number and variety of psions while still being able to make Luke Skywalker.

[enelson]

Thanks for the great replies.

I can only imagine the difficulty to limit an SM:E book to 100 pages. What if you were to concentrate on one particular setting or area and see if that could meet the 100 page goal?

Thanks!

Eric

[ictus]

I can be done, it just needs the work putting in.

Perhaps SMC needs to be done first, but that is down to ICE, I know I'd love to see it.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Don't expect a SMC anytime soon, sorry.....

David - RM Express did 10 pages for all of the combat tables.... It might be an idea to think of creating something along those lines for SPAM....

look at the skill lists, see what can be trimmed

Think Options, options that condense things in such a way to make it easy to expand back into the core....

[ironmaul]

David, I liked your "Spacemanster Accelerator," I never knew it existed.

IIRC SM:P had knives and swords and other hand to hand combat weapons in it, I thought this was odd to have in a sci-fi setting. Although, I can understand light sabers,(I'll have to find my books and have a look at them again, SM:P has given me a mild interest again).

[Dax]

Taking a look at my SPAM core book I find ...
30 or so pages of attack tables and critical charts,
...

For SM:Express you could creating a distinct setting:

A fight for freedom in a star system (No FTL).
The Tech pages counts would drop if only one kind of weapons is allowed
(Blasters or LASER) and only one SPAC and one or two amored vehicles (AFV).

The fight of freedom could be a civil war (only one race),
a fight for supremancy against their droids or
against an alien invasion (this would need more pages: Alien AFV etc).


It would be easy to find a place in the Imperial / ISC Timeline
for a "distant planet to plot revolt"