Topic: Higher Level HARP characters

[WoeRie]

We stopped the Echoes of Heaven campaign at level 16. The DP were a flat 40 (1-10) and 50 (11-20), talents, stat gains and class changes couldn't be bought at will, but were bought together with training packages (and it required at least 1 month of training time). Fate points were given for humble actions. Nobody has taken a class change, yet (so I have not decided what to do for it).

The players are quite strong at the moment, but I'm still able to beat them up a bit with the proper opponents. I required them to take quite a lot non-munchkin skills like Lore's and Languages. The Paladin (from the bazaar) got overpowered, so I wouldn't allow the class in future campaigns. Beside of the paladin the rogue seems to be the strongest class at high levels. Mages are still very strong, but not comparable to RM. This means they stay in the line with other classes.

So what is it you think made the Paladin overpowered and what do you think should be changed in its make up?

Bruce

At very high level the Paladin was nearly as good in healing than our Vivamancer (with his laying on hands). He had very good spells, like Bladeturn, together with his Holy Weapon spell he could cast every spell with ease while wearing chain mail and holding a gritty sword. So, he was perfectly balanced until level ~10, afterwards he was slightly overpowered compared to the others.

How would I fix it? Easily, go back to the original rules and define a Paladin as a Cleric with Combat as a favored  category. Maybe define his sword as a Holy symbol (together with the Holy Symbol spell) to push him a bit into the fighter category. But that's it. No real need for a Plate Mail Paladin á la D&D.

[Bruce]

At very high level the Paladin was nearly as good in healing than our Vivamancer (with his laying on hands). He had very good spells, like Bladeturn, together with his Holy Weapon spell he could cast every spell with ease while wearing chain mail and holding a gritty sword. So, he was perfectly balanced until level ~10, afterwards he was slightly overpowered compared to the others.

How would I fix it? Easily, go back to the original rules and define a Paladin as a Cleric with Combat as a favored  category. Maybe define his sword as a Holy symbol (together with the Holy Symbol spell) to push him a bit into the fighter category. But that's it. No real need for a Plate Mail Paladin á la D&D.

I am very fond of the "Plate Mail Paladin", that is the iconic paladin to me.
 Why not do something like this:
1. Only certain spells apply to the ability to cast them without hindrance in armor ability. Like either 1 or so every so many levels.
2. Every so many ranks in a spell you can reduce that penalty down, but don't make it easy. 
3. Each paladin has a limit to the number of spells they can use with that ability.
4. The spells are defined by the paladin's deity and only so many are allowed while wearing armor.

Honestly there is a lot you can do when it comes to those who get their power from a greater being. I think clerics and their type are given to much reign as it is anyway and should be more defined by the deity or pantheon they follow.

Bruce

[Old Man]

I can see your point when it comes to reducing the costs of some talents and the "Eloquence syndrome".
...

LOL. I had the same syndrome in RM2 (most every caster bought the ROCO I version - reduce all casting times by 1 round).

[Mando]

At the end of our old campaign, characters had reached 11th level. Many had already multi-classed. Many players found fun to "open" as many skills as needed. Main skills were not often developped to the cap, ie. beyond 20 ranks.

Main issue for high level chars seemed to be: what the hell can I do with my DPs? So the idea was to provide incentives to develop skills to the max possible ranks, create more talents, and of course multi-classing options.

High level chars need a separate book with heroic and beyond career paths, imho.

As the GM, I was thinking about including advanced skills options, à la Martial Law "Scaled Combat Actions" (p23-old version). Some simple and quick ideas were to let a very highly skilled character move fast while hiding, or climb unusual surfaces. Some skills were much harder to "scale up". Going "super heroic" and beyond normal use of the skill was the goal. Someone on the board sent me a very good spreadsheet with many ideas (Pat, maybe?), I just had to put them into place when we stopped the game