Topic: Class Level Bonuses.

[LearningTheGame]

Hi!!

I'm somewhat confused with the different bonuses classes get  when performing tasks.

For example, a RMSS fighter gets +20 (flat) on weapon skills while a RMC could get +60 (+1 each level beyond 20, so you could eventually see thing like +75 or more).

In RMSS skill rank bonus is broken down in two parts: skill rank category bonus + skill rank bonus. If you sum them you get the same bonus you get in RMC.

What is the sense of this huge difference in skill bonus? Are class level skill bonuses necesary? Would the game (be it RMC or RMSS) be balanced without them?

[MariusH]

An RMSS fighter is better at low levels, but has a slower progression than an RMC fighter. I suppose it's a matter of taste which progression type you prefer: Prof. Bonus = 20 or Prof. Bonus = 3 x lvl. Also, remember the training packages and talents available to an RMSS fighter.

What is "balanced"? There is much talk about "balance". I don't think this difference matters much on medium or even high levels, but I suppose at low levels, a fighter has an even higher "advantage" than in RMC over other classes (the RMSS fighter can be rather good even at level 1). Personally, though, I see balance a bit different than others. Even in a high-level party (where most argue that pure or certain semis are "best"), a fighter would probably be the best addition to the party if it only consisted of mages and clerics to begin with...

[VladD]

Balance is keeping things (roughly) equal across the board, so a player playing a healer isn't feeling like the runt of the party and player running the fighter isn't king of the game.

Balance insures:
- player fun.
- Consistency of in-game pieces.
- smooth running of adventures
- a possibility for high level player characters to be challenged.
- A possibility for lower level character still running the "world" so a fantasy king doesn't need to be a 20th lvl paladin to suppress party aspirations.
- GM fun

But each system you mention has internal balance, so if you are using RMC as the main system: try to go that way with converting professions and races. If you like RMFRP better, then balance towards that philosophy. Its unfair and no use trying to fit one into the other, without making well placed changes, as both systems are too different when looked at in detail. DP, Costs and learning curve for skills are so very different. Where similar skills are an integrated feature in RMFRP, they are add on for RMC. OB (and DB is a smaller way) will differ, skills number and totals  will differ, etc, etc.

[Marc R]

The systems are built with multiple layers of bonus logic, stats, race, ranks, profession, etc. This is intended IMO to create more variation in results.

The odds on two characters having identical bonuses in multiple skills gets lower every time a new factor is added.

The professional bonus itself, is intended to reflect central core concepts of a character's ongoing routine. . .fighters fight, they think about fighting, they train in fighting, they talk about fighting with their friends, they watch fighting carefully and notice details they can use. This focus on fighting gives them a fighting bonus.

Game balance issues wise, in the majority of instances, the professional bonus remains the minority of the total bonus. (The closest to absurd is the 20th level RM2 fighter with 1 rank in flail who has +5 skill bonus, and +60 professional bonus). But that's not a balance issue in terms of the other players, since likely the same fighter has their primary weapons out into the +150 or better range, so that sub +100 total bonus in flail isn't making them step on the toes of the other players.

The fact the fighter is say 10-30 bonus ahead of the rogue, even in the rogue's primary weapon, is balanced by the fact the rogue does non fighting stuff better.

[markc]

LearningTheGame,
 Huge Difference in Bonus:
   I think others explained it well above in that the system philosophies are different. By that I mean in RMSS a fighter profession is give a bonus to skills as a reference to what they have picked up and learned in their youth, and maybe some genetic make up as well.
   In RM2/C the level bonus accelerates the learning through the various levels for various skills.
   The main difference is as said above is that starting RMC professions will have much lower scores in skill where as the RMSS/FRP PC will have better skills. If you leave out Talents in RMSS you can see the difference fairly clear as to what the difference is.
   I like many others have a personal preference and that is RMSS system for skills.
 
  Can you play the game without Class Level Bonuses/Profession Bonuses?
   IMHO Class Level Bonuses are an integral part of RM2/C and should be kept. The monsters in the various books have Level Bonuses built into their stats assuming that the various PC's will have those bonuses. Does that make sense?
   As to RMSS/FRP you could do away with the profession bonus or just have people play the Layman Profession and pick up spell lists and any other thing they wanted as needed.
   IMHO Level Bonuses are a much bigger part of RM2/C than Profession Bonuses are in RMSS. Also In RM2/C magic casters get bonuses to PP and this is a big plus IMHO as PP values are smaller then in RMSS. So I guess you could csay casters would lose IMHO with out RM2/C Level Bonus to PP vs other professions.


  Would the game be balanced without them?
   I think I answered that in the last sentence above. But again you could try and play without the bonuses and just see how it goes. But IMHO it can really depend on what other options you pick to play with. I have played a lot of RMSS/FRP and have run games where everyone played a Layman and everything was fine. I have also thought of running a game where players had the option to spend Talent Points for professions and if they did not they were the Layman profession. IMHO it would just give the game a different flavor and allow you the GM to skew the profession's as you need to fit your world design.


Does that help?
MDC